A must read about EvoSport

m3dragon · #1 (**permalink**) 12-09-2006, 01:15 PM

Please read this post in its entirety. This is from my personal experience in dealing with EvoSport.

First let me tell you I had on my car before visiting EvoSport. I had conforti shark software, SS gen II headers, and grouppe N intake.

I dropped my car off a month before bimmerfest to have a VS carbon fiber roof installed with sunroof. While it was their I ask them to install their headers, GC lower control arms, differential delrin bushings, 10mm spacer for the rear, AFE intake, new “aggressive” street alignment, shock tower mount swap, and Powerchips software. I would also drop the car to them the day before Bimmerfest to have a VS-CSL with fogs front bumper installed. In total I have about almost 10,000 in parts and labor with EvoSport.

I will also mention that I warned EvoSport that I am an exacting customer and if the work I requested was not completed correctly that I would not be very happy. This was a fair and reasonable warning as I gave them the ability to refuse to work on my car.

So lets start with the first of many issues I have had with my dealings with EvoSport. Each incident will hopefully show EvoSport is a company that has a serious lack of attention to detail.

I pick up the car from EvoSport after leaving it there for an entire week having all the parts installed. I looked the car over and admire the new roof and the AFE intake. Everything seems to look good and in order. I asked about the 10 MM spacers they installed on the rear wheels to see if they check for tire clearance. (I previously had an issue with them but with the new wheel alignment I wanted to see if they would work) The owner [who will not be mentioned] said it was road tested and there was no rubbing.

I then begin the 450 mile drive back to Sacramento CA. I had no problems till I was just outside of LA. I hear what sounds like a rubbing sound. I stop and to my surprise I check the rear tires and what do I find. The tire is rubbing on the rear wheel arches. Needles to say I was upset but not overly freaked. I call the owner and left a message on his cell phone about the issue and continue on. [Remember was “supposedly” checked for no issues]

Fast-forward 5 hours till I get home. Some friends come over to look at the work done by EvoSport and notice the sunroof was not sitting in roof correctly. Granted it is an after market roof and will not be perfect but this was really bad. It was sticking way up from the roof and looked like they did not spend any time trying to fit the sunroof correctly. I completely missed this, as I was excited with the look of the CF roof on my car when I picked it up.

So I schedule an appointment the next day with my local BMW shop in Rocklin CA. This shop I absolutely trust as they fixed a previous issue I had with my car. [This is a whole another story]. I get the car there and they look over the work EvoSport has done. Fist thing they notice is flanges on the EvoSport Headers are thinker than Stock ones. They also that the connecting studs are to short for such a thick flange that the connecting nuts are no on there with the correct number of threads showing. Second they noticed that the CO2 sensor wires were not run cleanly which that shop had done previously for the prior issue [not related to this but relevant]. Third the front windshield was not OEM BMW glass. Lastly the windshield was not installed correctly according to the BMW window install tool which shows at center line the glass should be no hire then a few mm and the glass was almost 10mm high. (Reference BMW guides for this)

My trusted shop removed the 10mm spacers from the rear wheels. Then they tweaked with the sunroof panel to make it fit almost perfect with the new roof. While I was there I called EvoSport to ask about the head studs for the headers. My shop said there was a concern that it would develop leaks or come lose (more to come on this). I was put in contact with the father of the owner I had been dealing with. I explained my concern to him and I was told they have installed a lot of these and had no issues. They also used lock tight on the nuts to make sure that things would not come lose. I also mentioned to him about my frustration with the sunroof not being finished and how the front windshield was not installed correctly. The response to all my concerns and frustrations was a sales pitch about how EvoSport was the best place for service and parts. Basically it was a useless call as he was not helpful in any means.

I did not want to pay for a new OEM windshield and the labor to work on it. As I was going to be back in LA for Bimmerfest I was going to give EvoSport a chance to look at the windshield and see if they would resolve the issue.

Ok now it is time for bimmerfest. All this keep in mind has been going on in a month time frame. I drop the car off the day before Bimmerfest with EvoSport to have them look at the windshield and to have a VS-CSL front end put on. While I was not completely thrilled with EvoSport I was really left with no choice, as they had to be given a chance to fix any issue by state law. I.e. the windshield.

So VS and EvoSport work together on fitting my front bumper, which does not really fit a 2002 M3. [The reason is the mold VS for the bumper was from a real CSL M3, which has a different reinforcement than 2002 and older US M3s. AKA carbon support VS. Aluminum supports. (Please note the VS is a great company with great products, just that you need to make sure for CSL parts you have the correct setup. See turnermotorports about this).] It takes both EvoSport and VS 5 hours to figure out how to install the bumper. After the bumper is on EvoSport and their glass guy look at the windshield. Both of them said the windshield was installed correctly and there was no issues.

I pick up the car that night after having them put the bumper on and looking at the windshield. Everything looks fine to me in the dark mind you. Morning comes and I can finally get a good chance to look at the bumper. I find that the bumper does not fit to the level I was excepting. The fog lights were screwed in which means it is hard to fix the broken fog light I had from the drive down there a few weeks before. Also the bumper sits really high and there is almost no gap along the front, which is not a good thing. Again being aftermarket it will never fit perfectly but reference my previous remark on VS molds for the M3.

Ok now it is 1 week after bimmerfest and I am washing my car and notice water running down the A pillar into my car. That was the last straw. I take the car back to my shop in Rocklin and say I want the issue fixed. At this point I was going to pay to have these issued resolved.

The shop takes the trim and front windshield out. They also find when they try to take off the roof trim that it was glued down which means they have to destroy it to get it out. Once the front windshield and all the trim is off to all of our surprise we find CF roof was not installed properly. The two front corners of the roof were not epoxy down and were sticking up about 4 mm. Also the epoxy that holds the roof on was not applied in ample amounts in order for it to ooze out from under the roof to cover the full surface area.

Addressing the first issue of the front edges not being epoxy down was causing the windshield not to sit right. We also noticed that there was rust forming in those areas as there was no epoxy there as well as it was not flush to the car. I called EvoSport to let them know what we found and said this needs to be fixed or there would be serious issues. EvoSport talked to the shop owner and the tech and gave them the ok to fix the issues. (More on this in a sec) My shop rivets and epoxies the ends down, Install an OEM windshield and new trim on the roof and tested all the seals. The car no longer leaked and has not leaked ever sense then. A note should be made that windshield is also installed to the correct height by BMW specs after fixing the roof.

My shop called me a few days after I took the car home saying EvoSport is being slow to pay them now. I called EvoSport and the father owner answers the phone. I reiterated my frustration and ask when they will pay my shop that did the work. I got the same salesman tactics again and just ignore him. I talked to my shop and they told me EvoSport was upset that they were charging them full bill price for the issues I had and they said they should have been given a price break. My shop told them that they have good tech there and why should they have to cover for EvoSport’s mistake. This went on for 3 months until EvoSport finally paid my shop in full for fixing their mistakes. I make a note of this because if EvoSport were a reputable shop they would have took care of the issue and made sure I was a happy customer. Instead I am writing this post chastising them.

Now lets move a few months till the end of the year. I have had the EvoSport headers and parts setup for less then a year. The car has been feeling slower than it used to with my old software, intake, and headers. While I was at SEMA I talk to SS and ask about their stepped headers and explained how unsatisfied with EvoSport I was. The rep their give me a great deal for the SS stepped headers and cats and I purchased them on the spot.

Now forward till first part of DEC. I take the car to a new shop to have the new SS headers and cats installed. When they get the EvoSport Headers out and notice that there are exhaust leaks on 4 of the head gaskets and that the heat shield was getting burned. They also noticed that the head bolts were re-used and not replaced when evosport installed their headers. Evosport also reused the connecting nuts. The way we know this is the nuts miss threaded on the studs as once the studs have been used once they need to be replaced. If not you get threading issues and the nuts are not crimped right. The shop also made a note that the bolts were lose as well which would also contribute to the exhaust leaks. (Reference back to a first observation about the correct number of threads showing. They came loose just like the Rocklin shop said they would. If you run EvoSport headers please make sure to get longer exhaust studs, new gaskets and nuts.)

One thing we all noticed was that the headers had started to rust around the O2 bungs, flanges and on the inside. [Note that I never drive my car in the rain. I live in Sacramento, which means no long-term salt-water exposure. The car is always garaged and is treated like a member of the family. Trying to help put the level of care that this car gets. And yet they headers started to rust. So if you run EvoSport’s headers remember you are on barrowed time]. All of which is a reason why to NEVER buy the EvoSport headers as they are not stainless steal. Tempered steal rusts and if you keep the car a long time you will need to replace the headers. The ceramic coating is a waste and is just a marketing ploy so don’t fall for it as I did. All in all the headers lose power in upper power bands and feel slower than my SS setup. Again personal experience so I have room to talk.

After that I finally got mad enough to write this post for everyone to read. EvoSport in terms of service is a 0 on the 1-10 scale. I have tried to explain all my problems accurately to show how EvoSport is not the company they would like people to think they are. While many people will praise them for their work I will never support EvoSport again. Their sales tactics work very well as I bought into their “supposed knowledge”. After all of these issues I did my own research so that I never would be a victim of such a waste of money gain. EvoSport will probably even ask to have this post deleted because it is bad press and that it is exposing some serious flaws in their customer quality assurance and products. Headers in particular.

If you do your own research you will find that EvoSport’s recommendation are a complete lie. The AFE intake may flow better but as it is made out of steel it get heat soaked causing you to suck in hot air. Their headers drop off power at 6K compared to any SS style headers. Their lack of attention to detail is appalling. Saying sorry we missed that when it came to my roof, windshield and headers will not cut it. I fear for all those who have had headers and roofs installed by them. I would not be surprised to see more issues of exhaust leaks on the headers and rust/water leaks from the roofs.

I hope you have completely read this post and understand while I will never order or recommend EvoSport to anyone. I also hope you do through research and do not let EvoSport’s sales tactics convince you to buy any of their recommendations. If you wish to use them for parts and service I wish you the best as my experience with them has been far from satisfactory.

Images of the rust and exhaust leaks on the headers and gaskets.

Ferrone1 · #2 (**permalink**) 12-09-2006, 05:54 PM

What if any cat-back system do you have? Did you replace the cat? Anyways, thanks for the write up. I was considering Evosport, but I will lean the opposite way.

m3dragon · #3 (**permalink**) 12-09-2006, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferrone1

What if any cat-back system do you have? Did you replace the cat? Anyways, thanks for the write up. I was considering Evosport, but I will lean the opposite way.

I had to replace the Cats as the SS stepped Headers are large diamiter than my old SS cats.

Running race cats really dose not lose to much power and for Smog in CA it is a lot easier.

otoupalik · #4 (**permalink**) 12-10-2006, 06:36 PM

Although I will address some points brought up by other forum members in other posts, this will be the only direct reply to Adam.

We are disappointed to hear that Adam is so unhappy that he invested so much time to write his lengthy post bashing evosport. Hearing about it in this manner was certainly suprising as any issues that Adam had ever brought to our attention was handled quickly and to his satisfaction. In fact, the header issue is especially surprising as he recently sold them and listed them as “nothing wrong with them. Just changing my car for different setup.”

As the vast majority of you know (many from personal experience), evosport is a very reputable, high-integrity company with a great reputation for quality products and services. We are not going to even attempt to respond to all of Adam’s points. We see no value in creating a flame war. If any of you are genuinely concerned and want to know more, feel free to contact us. Suffice it to say that we feel strongly that Adam’s supposed facts are distorted. Even he indicates that when we were told of his windshield problems after the installation of the aftermarket CSL carbon roof, we agreed to pay his local shop to fix it – even at a ridiculously high cost (fyi, it is common industry practice to extend a less-than-retail shop-to-shop courtesy rate in similar situations; we got retail+). And we in fact paid this bill within two weeks of actually getting a detailed invoice from his local shop – not 3-months as indicated.

With respect to the header situation, it is unfortunate that Adam had problems. However, the fact that his header nuts came loose and caused exhaust leaks does not mean that the header design or construction is flawed. The complete fix for this was to re-tighten them. For the record, many race headers are made of mild steel rather than stainless. Rather than attempting to explain the pros and cons of each, we will post a white paper of the issue soon and you can decide which material (and cost) suits your personal need the best. And to indicate that the coating we use is worthless is ridiculous as this same coating is applied by this same company to many headers of leading NASCAR team cars. Further, to criticize the hardware is ridiculous as it is OE BMW.

Suffice it to say that we have sold hundreds of sets of our headers with very few problems. We can also point to many posts bashing leading competitive headers as well; and I’m sure those companies would tell you those complaints represent a small minority of their customer experiences as well. Again, we are disappointed that Adam is unhappy, but his experience (and perspective) does not accurately reflect who evosport is, the quality of our products and services, how customers are treated, or how problems are addressed.

As for the bumper, it was measured against a factory bumper on a 2002 BMW. The gaps and alignment were nearly identical to OE. Due to Adam’s level of expectation, we spent twice as much time on his car (and did not bill him). The fit was perfect.

To recap, Adam did have some legitimate issues with the roof, agreed. Some others are not. Regardless, we stepped up and paid a top dollar (more then obliged to or that was industry standard) to right his concerns. Once these issues were addressed, we have had zero indication from Adam that he had any unresolved issues. Actually quite to the contrary (I have emails that prove this). Adam continued to ask for parts and in fact asked numerous times if we could use his car at SEMA.

To all those that are quick to judge without personal experience, that is unfortunate. There are always two sides to a story and in our belief we have gone above and beyond what is reasonable and attempted on every level to take care of Adam.

For those that now question our technical and professional expertise, please refer to that fact that evosport, and me personally, were asked recently to manage and crew the BMW North America Factory Diesel race team lead by Marshall Pruitt at the recent 25 hour race of Thunderhill. Car and Driver magazine editors, Bill Auberlen, Joey hand and the BMW M-Brand Manager were all drivers and James Clay of bimmerworld managed the other car. The cars had many issues, and any of the crew or drivers will tell you that these cars would not have started; no less finished the race without evosport. This included one evosport lead tech working with an Austrian BMW Diesel engineer and tech to perform a motor swap in 3.5 hours at the track.

Like stated, for every bad experience, there are 100’s and 1000’s of good. I am sorry for any issues that Adam has had. However, we did take care of those that we were notified of, and I want to assure those that do not have personal experience, that this is an isolated case, and one that we did not “run” from.

I welcome any questions.

Thanks
Brad

m3dragon · #5 (**permalink**) 12-19-2006, 02:40 PM

OK as much as I would love to let this post fade, I have more info now to post that is a SERIOUS must read.

First for all those who want to bash, discredit me or say I should approach this in a different manner, my posting has been to let others know about what could go wrong and to question the safety of their cars as there may be serious issues they are not aware of. The boards are to help members and let others know about businesses and their practices both good and bad. If all you can do is try to make me look like the bad guy then it only shows that my point is too strong for you to discredit.

I have stated I am having a new OEM CSL roof installed because I did not trust EvoSport’s install of the VS roof. Now there have been some new discoveries that confirm my fears, as well as minor issues that will still be discussed.

When you remove the original metal roof you are suppose to drill out the spot welds that hold the roof to the car. The shop that took off the VS roof noticed that EvoSport over drilled many of these

spot-welds. Now for those who do not know how the roof is put together here is a quick 101 for you. There are 3 layers to the roof and the supports. Layer 1 is the roof and the other 2 layers are the roof supports and its frame. This over drilling of the spot-welds could have also been the reason why the front windshield had to be riveted down by my other shop to make the glass sit properly. This over drilling also makes the frame and support less structurally sound, so heaven forbid if I was in a rollover or side impact. These points of weakness could have buckled and, well you can imagine the rest. EvoSport should have fixed these spot welds or not over drilled them in order to keep the cars structural and safety properties. Not correcting these is a serious lack in QA.

Next discovery was that the epoxy they used was used incorrectly. When the VS roof was taken off they noticed that about 70% of the epoxy was not in contact with the roof. Also the epoxy was not placed in the correct areas according to VS or BMW application guide for installing a CSL roof. On top of this they applied the epoxy in a haphazard manner as if they just slopped it on there. Along these lines as well they did not re-primer anything and we found some serious rust spots forming. I will post pictures of how they placed the epoxy to illustrate this. Again this could lead to a structural concern for safety.

The last serious issue was they removed the center metal support. While they may have thought that the VS roof fiberglass supports were sufficient enough, the metal one was put in there by BMW to keep the cars structurally sound as well as provide strength in a side impact. Again all of above issues are key to structural safety in case of the worst possible scenario.

The minor issues are as follows. The washer fluid reservoir was barely attached after the new VS bumper was installed. All the connecting nuts were loose and almost off the studs. It was basically flapping around in the bumper, which I could never hear over the motor. The last issue is how the bumper was attached to the support with 2 screws. Again this is a minor issue but still shows lack of detail to the finished product.

Modifying does inherently carry risks. However you trust the shops you go to make sure all details no matter how minor are taken care of to keep you safe. In this case none of those details were looked at or if they were they were dismissed as being ok. All of these new issues almost require a new shell or even a new car. The biggest reason for this claim is the over drilling of the spot-welds. In some cases they almost go all the way through. How could you not notice this or even think that would be acceptable.

John:
While you and I will disagree on this post, I will say this; while you think my parts are for “show” how I drive my car is far more dangerous and life threatening than you driving on a track. We could debate this on another thread about risk morals and so on. But I drive my car in a spirited manner on back roads, which has more risk due to the fact that there are so many uncertain variables, IE other cars and road conditions. So in essences my life was in EvoSport’s hands more than yours.

After finding all that has been done to my car I truly am worried for you on the track. While you completely trust EvoSport I do not and I am concerned for you and all those who have had EvoSport install a CF roof on their car. As I have said I truly think I am the 1 or 2 percent of EvoSport’s customers that have had a bad experience. But my experience should be known as it does raise some serious concerns for those who have had EvoSport install a VS or CSL roof on their car.

If EvoSport would like to step up to the plate again and fix this latest discovery they have my contact info.

otoupalik · #6 (**permalink**) 12-19-2006, 04:07 PM

Adam,

It is interesting that once again you have posted accusations about evosport work without ever contacting us directly to discuss the issues. As we have stated previously, we feel this certainly raises a serious question about your intentions. It appears that your real desire is to continue to bash evosport and cause our company as much harm as you can rather than get factual information about your "problems". Bottom line, once again your lengthy post is full of critical inaccuracies. Whereas before your misstatements were annoying, your bashing is now a very serious issue and appears to be more of a vendetta. To imply that you are simply posting facts for others to be aware of is clearly another untruth. To state that evosport has made your car less safe or in any way endangered you is so absolutely preposterous.

For the record, the drilling out of the factory roof spot welds was done in accordance with BMW factory specs. There is in fact no structural issue with your car, no matter how the holes were drilled because the roof by its very design is NOT a structural component of the body or chassis - that's why a composite roof panel can be used in the first place. You show your lack of knowledge about these cars (and/or the lack of knowledge of those presently feeding you information about your car) by indicating that evosport left out a critical roof crossbar support. In point of fact, only non-sunroof cars utilize the cross-brace to refer to (and we do install them on cars where the sunroof is removed when the roof panel is changed). Sunroof cars (like yours) do NOT come from the BMW factory with that cross-brace installed as the sunroof cartridge provides needed support in the affected area. Additionally, the glue used to attach the roof was applied according to BMW factory specs, plus additional areas. The fact that it may not have attached to all areas reflects the fact that we applied more than necessary in some areas where composite-to-metal contact may not have actually been made, not that we did anything incorrectly. The shop that is feeding you this latest info has, by your prior statements, not done any of these roof panel changes previously; we have probably done more of them than any other shop in the country. Yet you and/or this shop which has never none one before are the experts on the process?

People who read this will believe what they will. However, I cannot imagine how anyone with an objective perspective will not see what is really going on here.

Sincerely,
Brad Otoupalik

TYE · #7 (**permalink**) 12-19-2006, 05:50 PM

While I cannot discredit any of the involved party's statements, I will point out some of the things that raise particular interest.

You spoke of the problems with the headers, but yet in this post
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=139252
you state "There is nothing wrong with them. Just changing my car for different setup"

You nor your shop has experience in installing the roof, but then the way you address the situation is as if you are an expert.

I can understand you may be frustrated about the whole situation, however coming on the forum and handling it in this matter probably was not the best approach. Everything is a learning experience so Im not going to sit and ridicule you on here.

However, I will address the company Evosport. Im sorry you were not happy with what transpired on your car, but I also find it hard to believe the way you said Evosport approached things.

I have always had a very positive experience with my dealings with them. I have also referred many of my friends to them who have had nothing but positive experiences with them. I will share my latest experience with Evosport.

My car went into Evosport for a mechanical inspection after it had been recently hit and repaired. While it was there, I also asked them to completely go over the car with a fine tooth comb. Evosport prepared a very detailed list, broken into sub categories of critical, suggested, and non critical. They promptly gave me a call once the inspection was done to go over the list with me, which they also emailed me to have in front of me. I ended up having them take care of every single repair on the list, and throughout the process they were giving me updated of when parts arrived, what work was done on the car that day, and what was left to do. During the course of repairs, I had a major issue come up. As I was having rear wheel bearings changed, my drivers side half shaft was completely rusted in the spline and was not able to be removed. I was given a call and made aware of the situation, told all the methods they tried to free it up, and where we were at now and how I wanted to continue. The choice was to completely replace the whole assembly, whether it was with new parts or used parts. They had even already contacted a local source for used parts and had a quote for me on what it would cost and how soon they could have it. Throughout the whole process, they took care of me as a customer and treated my car like it was their own.

I too am very very picky with who I let touch my car and am a very critical person when it comes to that. I had been without my car for 6 months so I was very ancy to get my car back, and Evosport made sure my car returned to me in top condition and directly in line with the timeframe we discussed.

I will continue to recommend Evosport to the community as I was very impressed with their professionalism and attention to detail. I have dealt with many other shops before and I can tell you this was the best customer service I have ever received.

m3dragon · #8 (**permalink**) 12-20-2006, 09:05 AM

I was in no means trying to start a war, but instead felt that others should be warned about a worst-case scenario when installing a roof.

For those of you that have come to the defense of EvoSport I have no ill will toward you. You are standing up for your beliefs. I would expect nothing less. I regret that you feel you have to attack mine however. As for the headers that everyone is so worked up about; I didn’t state in any of my posts that the headers had a problem. I stated that I had a problem with some surface rust that was deemed okay by EvoSport. This is not the real issue. My issue (as stated many times before) is with the installation.

I leave you with the requested pictures of my latest complaint. If you feel I’m wrong then it is your right to say so.

philsans5 · #9 (**permalink**) 12-20-2006, 11:00 AM

not trying to start anything, but since I am a body man (14 yrs) I feel the need to say something. We (the industry) use adhesives now for almost every panel attachment. Your pics don't show any missed edges on the outside mating surface. What's inside didn't make much contact, but would have been fine.

Since no one usually takes a roof back off the car, they had no way of knowing what did or didn't make contact. Bare steel isn't a good thing, but inside where it will never see nature would have lasted a long time. You said it wasn't making contact with the front edge: it may have when they did the install.

adhesives have a shelf life. If they bought it from someone (a supplier) who had it sitting on a shelf for a year, then it is the suppliers fault, not theirs. And adhesives fail. often. It sucks, but has become a way of life. That is why they constantly change and try to improve. It easily could have seperated from temp differences between the steel and carbon fiber.

And the bumper issue: Did you know it required a different reinforcement? and if you did, why didn't you get it? (sorry it sounds accusational, but it's a valid question) The fact they got it to fit at all with your reinforcement is incredible. The lip that is at the top of the aluminum carrier is most likely the culprit for the tight fit.

No, I'm not friends with Brad or anyone at EVOSPORT. Yes we both race in the same series, but haven't crossed paths. I'm not arguing that bad things happened between the 2 of you. I haven't heard anything bad about them and am sure I will do buisnees with them in the future.

As with any business, you can make some of the people happy some of the time, but keep dreaming if you think you can make everyone happy.

knott · #10 (**permalink**) 12-24-2006, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by philsans5

not trying to start anything, but since I am a body man (14 yrs) I feel the need to say something. We (the industry) use adhesives now for almost every panel attachment. Your pics don't show any missed edges on the outside mating surface. What's inside didn't make much contact, but would have been fine.

Since no one usually takes a roof back off the car, they had no way of knowing what did or didn't make contact. Bare steel isn't a good thing, but inside where it will never see nature would have lasted a long time. You said it wasn't making contact with the front edge: it may have when they did the install.

adhesives have a shelf life. If they bought it from someone (a supplier) who had it sitting on a shelf for a year, then it is the suppliers fault, not theirs. And adhesives fail. often. It sucks, but has become a way of life. That is why they constantly change and try to improve. It easily could have seperated from temp differences between the steel and carbon fiber.

And the bumper issue: Did you know it required a different reinforcement? and if you did, why didn't you get it? (sorry it sounds accusational, but it's a valid question) The fact they got it to fit at all with your reinforcement is incredible. The lip that is at the top of the aluminum carrier is most likely the culprit for the tight fit.

No, I'm not friends with Brad or anyone at EVOSPORT. Yes we both race in the same series, but haven't crossed paths. I'm not arguing that bad things happened between the 2 of you. I haven't heard anything bad about them and am sure I will do buisnees with them in the future.

As with any business, you can make some of the people happy some of the time, but keep dreaming if you think you can make everyone happy.

Well said