Camaro SS VS. Toyota Supra VS. Porche 911 Turbo

[JasonJ75]

[quote][i]Originally posted by Bad Bimr

Granted the new "small block" is made from aluminum but it is still based on a design from the 50's. It still uses a OHV motor? Give GM credit? Yeah right. GM had a great motor in the ZR1. What did they do, they shelfed it. You still want me to give them credit. It is sad when a Ford Mustang has a technologically better powerplant then a Vette at 1/2 the price.

You gotta be kidding me?!?! Technologically better? Perhaps. Better in any other way? Hell no. You cannot honestly be saying a Cobra engine is better than a LS1/LS6. When you buy a Cobra...You're getting 1/2 the car..

What are these links to? Big HP chevy cars? Everyone that knows anything about cars kows you can get BIG HP out of these motors. But are any of these cars streetable?

Who gives a shit? My whole point was that the 350 COULD put down more than 500hp (Which was inferred as being impossible in earlier posts). I never ONCE inferring these cars were streetable.

Knock Knock anyone home these are race cars.

Ever disagreed w/ someone w/ out trying to belittle them? Don't hate.


Do you want me to post places on the net of BMW's, Benze's, Honda's making MAD HP like you did? They will all be race car's just as yours were. Show me sites of a 672 HP street car. I showed you the renntech.

http://www.renntechmercedes.com/spla...lk/clkgtx.html

This is a STREET CAR. No NOS. NO TURBO. NO SC. ALL MOTOR.



Its also a 7.4l/454ci V12! (Shit is it nice ), but c'mon how can you even compare this to a 350? Want a streetable 350 putting down that power? Call Lingenfelter. http://www.lingenfelter.com/packages...ng_stageII.htm

The small block however is no where close to being as great a m,otor as the newer cars have. Even some of the newere GM products. If GM had a brain the Vette would have a newer version of the ZR1 motor or a bigger northstar type of motor. GM has the motors just no brains.

Maybe its because the LS1 is on Ward's top ten list? Maybe because the Vette is breaking sales records (Lets not even talk about the Camaro's). Maybe because it took 1st and 3rd place in C&D Tuner Challenge while the RENNtech didn't even finish. Dude, stop hatin' the 350 small block and accept it for what it is..A damn good engine.

Peace

[JasonJ75]

No kidding..What the hell??

Originally posted by Bad Bimr


Your kidding right?

That is so funny.

Dude get a life.

Bill P

[IWANTABMW]

Originally posted by Bad Bimr


The Hennessey Viper? Yep heard of it. check out the link.

http://www.hennesseymotorsports.com/...id=882975_7058

8.4 liters of American Iron (Ok, It's aluminum but you get the point). That thing is SICK.

77.1 HP/L
0-60 mph 3.3
0-100 mph 7.1
Standing 1/4 mile, sec@mph* 11.2 @ 131.7
Braking, 60-0 mph, ft. 109
Lateral acceleration, g 1.06

However the Renntech makes about the same HP with only 7.4 liters.

http://www.renntechmercedes.com/spla...lk/clkgtx.html

83.78 HP/L
0-60 mph 3.4 seconds
0-100 mph 7.1 seconds
0-150 mph 15.2 seconds
Quarter mile 11.3 seconds @ 130 mph
Lateral Acceleration, 1.0g +

So if the Benz had another 1000 CC (1 liter) it would be pumping out 704 HP

We can go on back and forth doing this. Americans can/do build dast cars. Yes you can make any car makes gobs of power no mater if it's American on Korean. My only point was that the "newer" even American motors are better then the 350 (aka small block). OHV motors are motors from the distant past. The LS1 motor is BAD ASS, but GM should be ashamed for putting a DOHC motor in a Geo and a OHV motor in the Vette.

Lets end this.

Bill P

PS You take the Viper I still want the Benz. Yea they make the benz in a convertable also.

PPS I am playing/winning the lottery tomorow.

Correct me if iam wrong,but isnt a hennesey viper much cheaper then the renntech benz?? if it is,you dump the rest of the money into the viper instead of buying the benz and make the viper more faster.

[Bad Bimr]

[quote]Originally posted by JasonJ75

What are these links to? Big HP chevy cars? Everyone that knows anything about cars kows you can get BIG HP out of these motors. But are any of these cars streetable?

Who gives a shit? My whole point was that the 350 COULD put down more than 500hp (Which was inferred as being impossible in earlier posts). I never ONCE inferring these cars were streetable.

Do you want me to post places on the net of BMW's, Benze's, Honda's making MAD HP like you did? They will all be race car's just as yours were. Show me sites of a 672 HP street car. I showed you the renntech.

http://www.renntechmercedes.com/spla...lk/clkgtx.html

This is a STREET CAR. No NOS. NO TURBO. NO SC. ALL MOTOR.



Its also a 7.4l/454ci V12! (Shit is it nice ), but c'mon how can you even compare this to a 350? Want a streetable 350 putting down that power? Call Lingenfelter. http://www.lingenfelter.com/packages...ng_stageII.htm

The small block however is no where close to being as great a m,otor as the newer cars have. Even some of the newere GM products. If GM had a brain the Vette would have a newer version of the ZR1 motor or a bigger northstar type of motor. GM has the motors just no brains.

Maybe its because the LS1 is on Ward's top ten list? Maybe because the Vette is breaking sales records (Lets not even talk about the Camaro's). Maybe because it took 1st and 3rd place in C&D Tuner Challenge while the RENNtech didn't even finish. Dude, stop hatin' the 350 small block and accept it for what it is..A damn good engine.

Peace

Read my 2nd post on this thread. It has links to big power chevy cars. As a matter of fact one is the same as the one you posted. I never said Chevy counld not make Bigg HP. Go back and re-read my posts.

So the Renntech is a 7.4 liter car. Do the math? Does that come to like 83 Hp/L. That's a whole lotta HP with no forced induction. Wait the S2000 makes even more HP/L as does the new E-46 ///M3. And all of this cars are STREETABLE. Yep drive em to the track , no need for a trailer. Are there any Streetable Vettes (or other OHV motored cars)making 83 HP/L (Renntech) let alone 100+ HP/L (S2000 & ///M3)? I doubt it.

Dude get it strait. i like the Vette. I like the small block. I am only pointing out it's shortcomings versus other cars (motors). that does not make the Vette a bad car. My buddy has a 1998 C5. that car is Bad Ass. But both he and I are pissed that the $28K Corbra has a DOHC engine and the $50K Vette does not. Again, does this make the Vette a bad car? NO. But a Vette with with a DOHC (ZR1 Style) engine would be a better Vette.

Why am i talking about Vettes , Vipers, etc?

This thread started as a BIG LIE. I simply said that it was a lie. The liar admitted to it. End of thread.

Bill P

[Bad Bimr]

Originally posted by IWANTABMW


Correct me if iam wrong,but isnt a hennesey viper much cheaper then the renntech benz?? if it is,you dump the rest of the money into the viper instead of buying the benz and make the viper more faster.

Yea it's cheaper but I was just trying to make a point. The point was that a DOHC engine is beter than a 50+ yr old design OHV. That's all.

Bill P

PS Who want's to go 1/2's on the Renntech? Hennesy Viper? A couple of expensive blondes on the corner?

PEACE

[Bad-Karma]

About the 350 not being much good for anymore than 500 HP. And you know what, it's not, at least not (A) reliably, and (B) on pump gas, two very important things for a street car.

I've built several marine, race engines. Now, realizing that these motors are run at the limits most of the time, they have a very short life span. And you know what; it's pretty tough to get anymore than 500 HP out of them reliably.

Lingenfelter does it with twin turbos, and once again, no proven claims to reliability. Yes, NASCAR is running 350's, putting out near 800 HP (I'm still wondering where the 'stock' is in Stock car).
Guess what though; rebuilt after every race.

And yes, the LS1/LS6 motor has been updated. It's still like putting lipstick on a pig however; you can change the appearance and update it somewhat, but it's still 40 year old technology under the makeup. OHV, single camshaft, pushrod V-8. Aluminum block and fuel injection notwithstanding, the technology is still old.

Don't get me wrong; I'm a big fan of the Z06 (and the Viper for that matter, having driven both of them on the track extensively). However, it's still an old generation of engine that's being tweaked to get maximum HP reliably.

Comparing apples to apples, you're looking at the engine in a Mustang Cobra (320 HP, 4.6L) vs Camaro SS (335 HP, 5.7L). Give Ford that extra 1.1L of displacement, and see what they do then. I'm not a big fan of Ford, but let's keep it equal.

As to the Camaro / Firechicken being taken as Sport cars. Sports car are not about how fast you go in a straight line. It's about how the car handles overall. Take ALMS for example. What classes of cars run there? BMW M3s, Vettes, Vipers and Porsches. (GTxx classes anyway). There are NO Camaros and Firebirds (or Mustangs for that matter) running in ALMS.

Excellence on the road course is one of the primary characteristics of a 'Sports Car'. The Camaro and Firechicken handle ok on the track, but I'll put my 211 HP 325is against an F-Body on the track anyday, even though I give up 125+ HP.

Pat

[Brad D.]

Originally posted by Bad-Karma
About the 350 not being much good for anymore than 500 HP. And you know what, it's not, at least not (A) reliably, and (B) on pump gas, two very important things for a street car.

I've built several marine, race engines. Now, realizing that these motors are run at the limits most of the time, they have a very short life span. And you know what; it's pretty tough to get anymore than 500 HP out of them reliably.

Lingenfelter does it with twin turbos, and once again, no proven claims to reliability. Yes, NASCAR is running 350's, putting out near 800 HP (I'm still wondering where the 'stock' is in Stock car).
Guess what though; rebuilt after every race.

And yes, the LS1/LS6 motor has been updated. It's still like putting lipstick on a pig however; you can change the appearance and update it somewhat, but it's still 40 year old technology under the makeup. OHV, single camshaft, pushrod V-8. Aluminum block and fuel injection notwithstanding, the technology is still old.

Don't get me wrong; I'm a big fan of the Z06 (and the Viper for that matter, having driven both of them on the track extensively). However, it's still an old generation of engine that's being tweaked to get maximum HP reliably.

Comparing apples to apples, you're looking at the engine in a Mustang Cobra (320 HP, 4.6L) vs Camaro SS (335 HP, 5.7L). Give Ford that extra 1.1L of displacement, and see what they do then. I'm not a big fan of Ford, but let's keep it equal.

As to the Camaro / Firechicken being taken as Sport cars. Sports car are not about how fast you go in a straight line. It's about how the car handles overall. Take ALMS for example. What classes of cars run there? BMW M3s, Vettes, Vipers and Porsches. (GTxx classes anyway). There are NO Camaros and Firebirds (or Mustangs for that matter) running in ALMS.

Excellence on the road course is one of the primary characteristics of a 'Sports Car'. The Camaro and Firechicken handle ok on the track, but I'll put my 211 HP 325is against an F-Body on the track anyday, even though I give up 125+ HP.

Pat

Well said my friend. This sums up everything. Thread should be closed because this guy has already turned up as a different alias lying about somthing else now.

On to the M3 vs S2000 thread.... LOL

[HB///MPOWER]

camarro672 or stang372
or whatever the fuck your name is

GET A LIFE !!!

if you have to lie on the internet then you really are a loser when your out of web world


dude have some honor, pride, and self worth in yourself
and dont bs about your own life. if you got an 86' 6 cyl. camarro
fine. (well not really) thats your life, if thats all you can afford fine no one would have said shit to you. but you think that by lying your gunna impress a bunch of people on the ***internet*** people whom you will probably never meet. Well now look at what you did you made your self look like a complete ass. By lying and getting caught i bet your too ashamed to show up on (get this) an ***internet website***
Damn that is soooo pathetic. Look i dont hate you but i do hate liars
and this should really open your eyes about telling the truth. Get a life man. My 12 year old brother dosent mak up lies as pathetic as that and he is still a kid. well all i have to say is that i am disappointed in you because its people like you that make Honest people on the web look un trustworthy.


just my $0.02

Tom

[Bad Bimr]

Originally posted by Bad-Karma
About the 350 not being much good for anymore than 500 HP. And you know what, it's not, at least not (A) reliably, and (B) on pump gas, two very important things for a street car.

I've built several marine, race engines. Now, realizing that these motors are run at the limits most of the time, they have a very short life span. And you know what; it's pretty tough to get anymore than 500 HP out of them reliably.

Lingenfelter does it with twin turbos, and once again, no proven claims to reliability. Yes, NASCAR is running 350's, putting out near 800 HP (I'm still wondering where the 'stock' is in Stock car).
Guess what though; rebuilt after every race.

And yes, the LS1/LS6 motor has been updated. It's still like putting lipstick on a pig however; you can change the appearance and update it somewhat, but it's still 40 year old technology under the makeup. OHV, single camshaft, pushrod V-8. Aluminum block and fuel injection notwithstanding, the technology is still old.

Don't get me wrong; I'm a big fan of the Z06 (and the Viper for that matter, having driven both of them on the track extensively). However, it's still an old generation of engine that's being tweaked to get maximum HP reliably.

Comparing apples to apples, you're looking at the engine in a Mustang Cobra (320 HP, 4.6L) vs Camaro SS (335 HP, 5.7L). Give Ford that extra 1.1L of displacement, and see what they do then. I'm not a big fan of Ford, but let's keep it equal.

As to the Camaro / Firechicken being taken as Sport cars. Sports car are not about how fast you go in a straight line. It's about how the car handles overall. Take ALMS for example. What classes of cars run there? BMW M3s, Vettes, Vipers and Porsches. (GTxx classes anyway). There are NO Camaros and Firebirds (or Mustangs for that matter) running in ALMS.

Excellence on the road course is one of the primary characteristics of a 'Sports Car'. The Camaro and Firechicken handle ok on the track, but I'll put my 211 HP 325is against an F-Body on the track anyday, even though I give up 125+ HP.

Pat

THANK YOU

I have been trying to say this the whole time. I tried but could not say it better myself.

Bill P

[Bad Bimr]

Originally posted by HB///MPOWER
camarro672 or stang372
or whatever the fuck your name is

GET A LIFE !!!

if you have to lie on the internet then you really are a loser when your out of web world


dude have some honor, pride, and self worth in yourself
and dont bs about your own life. if you got an 86' 6 cyl. camarro
fine. (well not really) thats your life, if thats all you can afford fine no one would have said shit to you. but you think that by lying your gunna impress a bunch of people on the ***internet*** people whom you will probably never meet. Well now look at what you did you made your self look like a complete ass. By lying and getting caught i bet your too ashamed to show up on (get this) an ***internet website***
Damn that is soooo pathetic. Look i dont hate you but i do hate liars
and this should really open your eyes about telling the truth. Get a life man. My 12 year old brother dosent mak up lies as pathetic as that and he is still a kid. well all i have to say is that i am disappointed in you because its people like you that make Honest people on the web look un trustworthy.


just my $0.02

Tom

Serious dude, what gives? Why would you do this? Non of us know you and you just lie and lie. If this is a problem please seek help.

Does it make you feel good? You are braggig to people you will never meet/know. Like we care.

Bill P

PS Did I tell you about the time I raced a Viper with my Nitromethane fed John Deer Lawn Tractor?

[MALIX]

I was just reading some posts cuz I was borred when I stumbled on to this one... I must say -- I gained lots of wisdom from the wise guys around here.. Thanks for sticking with the arguments Bad Bimr. Yours and some others inputs are highly appreciated...

If I ever owned an American car though it would probably be a 1970's Ford Mustang BOSS 302 or Mach 1 -- beautiful cars. I dont like the looks of the latest Camero's and Stangs, just my opinion.

That's all...



MALIX

[Brad D.]

Originally posted by MALIX
I was just reading some posts cuz I was borred when I stumbled on to this one... I must say -- I gained lots of wisdom from the wise guys around here.. Thanks for sticking with the arguments Bad Bimr. Yours and some others inputs are highly appreciated...

If I ever owned an American car though it would probably be a 1970's Ford Mustang BOSS 302 or Mach 1 -- beautiful cars. I dont like the looks of the latest Camero's and Stangs, just my opinion.

That's all...



MALIX

And I thought this post had finally died a painfull death!

[Bad Bimr]

Originally posted by MALIX
I was just reading some posts cuz I was borred when I stumbled on to this one... I must say -- I gained lots of wisdom from the wise guys around here.. Thanks for sticking with the arguments Bad Bimr. Yours and some others inputs are highly appreciated...

If I ever owned an American car though it would probably be a 1970's Ford Mustang BOSS 302 or Mach 1 -- beautiful cars. I dont like the looks of the latest Camero's and Stangs, just my opinion.

That's all...



MALIX

Man this thread will go on for years. Ha Ha

Hey I found a American Motor that is bad as and makes tons of power till it was killed. It was under my nose the whole time.

http://www.lingenfelter.com/packages/pricing_zr1.htm

Yep the 350 CID (5.7 L)LT-5 ZR-1 motor. Lingenfelter gets it bored and stroked to 368 CID (6.0 L) and even 415 CID (6.8 L).

350 cid (5.7 L) - 475 BHP / 415 lbs-ft CARB E.O. D-333-3 83 HP/L

368 cid (6.0 L) - 530+ BHP / 450 lbs-ft CARB E.O. D-333-12 88 HP/L

415 cid (6.8 L) - 610+ BHP / 500+ lbs-ft of NO Carb E.O. 90 HP/L

So you see that new tech is better then old tech. No matter how many Band-Aids you put on a OHV motor it is still a motor that has been dated for years. Will GM ever wake up?

Bill P

PS Ok the 610+ HP Renntech or the ZR-1 with 610+ HP? I'll take one of each please. Hey and throw in one of those TT Vipers too.

PPS If you have not seen this site yet, check it out. hey i may want to go RICE on my next car.

http://www.exvitermini.com/

[Brad D.]

Originally posted by Bad Bimr


Man this thread will go on for years. Ha Ha

Hey I found a American Motor that is bad as and makes tons of power till it was killed. It was under my nose the whole time.

http://www.lingenfelter.com/packages/pricing_zr1.htm

Yep the 350 CID (5.7 L)LT-5 ZR-1 motor. Lingenfelter gets it bored and stroked to 368 CID (6.0 L) and even 415 CID (6.8 L).

350 cid (5.7 L) - 475 BHP / 415 lbs-ft CARB E.O. D-333-3 83 HP/L

368 cid (6.0 L) - 530+ BHP / 450 lbs-ft CARB E.O. D-333-12 88 HP/L

415 cid (6.8 L) - 610+ BHP / 500+ lbs-ft of NO Carb E.O. 90 HP/L

So you see that new tech is better then old tech. No matter how many Band-Aids you put on a OHV motor it is still a motor that has been dated for years. Will GM ever wake up?

Bill P

PS Ok the 610+ HP Renntech or the ZR-1 with 610+ HP? I'll take one of each please. Hey and throw in one of those TT Vipers too.

PPS If you have not seen this site yet, check it out. hey i may want to go RICE on my next car.

http://www.exvitermini.com/

I go to this site everyday. That's an amazing video when he is on the dyno and the exhaust manifold glows red!!! WTF!!!!!