F22 Raptor Vs Eurofighter Typhoon - Best Scrapper?

[mav21386]

just something ive been wondering for a while me being a military aviation buff/nerd.

Without any US vs Euro arguments please.
This is not a political post – let’s keep it strictly aviation please.

Which one would come out best in a close quarter scrap?

F/A 22 Raptor or Typhoon/Eurofighter

Some videos to help you decide..

http://www.f22-raptor.com/media/index.html# - Go to “video gallery”

http://www.eurofighter.com/Medialibrary/Video/ Try 21st century air power.

I know that many people say the Eurofighter is a French Rafale with a different air duct intake design. This post isn’t really to debate that. But the flying characteristics do say a lot for that argument

If in doubt. Try this:
http://www.dassault-aviation.com/gb/media/webtv/

Click on the ‘by title’ button and the alphabetically go to;
“The pilot of the Rafale”

Bear in mind the Typhoon is now in service but the Raptor will not be until Dec 2005.

Sorry if this has been covered before but the videos are well worth a look.

Look forward to hearing your views.

[mav21386]

somebody respond or im going to think that all of you are very uneducated.

[MD318is]

your statement above seems quite uneducated.. im not sure too many people are up to par on their "fighter jet" intel.. sorry. Although i do find them fascinating.

[Midnight Shark]

Originally Posted by mav21386

somebody respond or im going to think that all of you are very uneducated.

Now that's the most uneducated assumption I have read in a while. To answer your question I would say the Raptor would prevail. It would even kick a F15 Eagle's ass.

PS: I'm no military aviation expert but I do work in the Medical field.

[big_sur]

i think a plane that needs 2 guys with m16s and a sign saying you're going to be shot if you get too close to it is prolly not losin many battles.

[chandler]

raptor. 9 times out of 10. it will out handle an f-16, out gun an f-15, cruise supersonic w/o afterburners, thrust vectoring nozzles, extremely low radar cross section, lower than the typhoons, superior avionics and not to mention better pilots...haha plus, the raptor carries its weapons internally. this even further reduces the radar cross section and eliminates a tremendous amount of drag. the typhoon wont even know what hit him. though dont get me wrong, the typhoon can scrap and do it well, just not versus the f-22. is that a good answer??

[mav21386]

finally some feedback!

[XiaoNio]

Personally, I thought the F-23 was the superior platform because of its more novel design and better/lower radar signature. Since we're stuck with the F-22...

With the exception of the F-16, most modern US fighters have been longer ranged missile based platforms. Eg. F-14 (Phoenix), Phantom (Sparrow) and F-22 (AMRAAM). The fact that the F-22 doesn't even have a cannon is indicative of how trusting we are of ranged warfare. While in most cases this is enough, I'd say in a close in 1 on 1 dogfight, it would be to your advantage to have a cannon and missiles that weren't in an internal bay.

The Eurofighter appears to be a much more effective close in fighter while the F-22 appears to be a further evolution of the F-15/F-14 concept. In the case of a close in scrap, I'd give it to the Eurofighter. As far as overall air superiority, I think the F-22 is the better platform. Another consideration is that the F-22 is a dedicated air superiority platform whereas the Eurofighter also has an air to ground roll. Perhaps a better comparison is the Eurofighter vs. the JSF?

[Impulsed7]

Too many handling and computer issues with the F23. It had to have a computer constantly changing the flaps, wings and rudders just to keep it in the air, while the F22 the changes are still there but very minimal. Much better for high speed cruising.
The F22 also has provisions for a cannin instead of 2 sidewinders in one of its side pods, leaving it with 4 Am's and 2 sides.

I wonder how much cheaper the Euro is though??

[alen]

Eurofighter is more computer dependent that F22. It's an unstable plane so there you go.

Eurofighter can not only supercruise but also dogfight in supercruise. Now that's agility that the F22 can only dream about.

[wahrany]

Sukhoy 37 Cobra, yet to see or hear of something that could match it let alone beat it in a good ol dogfight. i dont know too much about the technicalities of fighter jets, just some basics

[Dr. Ew]

the video of the typhoon is cooler, and thats all that matters, so the typhoon is by far a better airplane. even though im pretty sure that raptor is a far beter airplane.

[mav21386]

Originally Posted by XiaoNio

Personally, I thought the F-23 was the superior platform because of its more novel design and better/lower radar signature. Since we're stuck with the F-22...

With the exception of the F-16, most modern US fighters have been longer ranged missile based platforms. Eg. F-14 (Phoenix), Phantom (Sparrow) and F-22 (AMRAAM). The fact that the F-22 doesn't even have a cannon is indicative of how trusting we are of ranged warfare. While in most cases this is enough, I'd say in a close in 1 on 1 dogfight, it would be to your advantage to have a cannon and missiles that weren't in an internal bay.

The Eurofighter appears to be a much more effective close in fighter while the F-22 appears to be a further evolution of the F-15/F-14 concept. In the case of a close in scrap, I'd give it to the Eurofighter. As far as overall air superiority, I think the F-22 is the better platform. Another consideration is that the F-22 is a dedicated air superiority platform whereas the Eurofighter also has an air to ground roll. Perhaps a better comparison is the Eurofighter vs. the JSF?

The F-22 does have a cannon and it has thrust vectoring to boot, something the Eurofighter has neither of. http://www.f22-raptor.com/media/vide...os/04_006L.WMV

Thrust to weight advantages (1,27 for F-22 vs. 1,18 for Typhoon)

There is an armament issue as well. The F/A-22 has a 20mm Vulcan gatling type weapon that fires at a higher rate, giving the probability of and number of rounds on target ratio advantage to the Raptor. The final throw weight of the rounds that hit the opponent is usually in the advantage column of the Vulcan as well. BTW... The British have announced that they want to take the guns off the Typhoon, and even if they don't, they won't train on them, which is a mistake, as the 27mm Mauser is one of the finest aerial weapons out there.

Finally, thrust vectoring gives the F/A-22 the distinct advantage. The F/A-22 can outmaneuver any other production fighter out there right now, including the SU's, which slouch not. The ability to turn and juke better than your opponent makes it a race between two different classes of aircraft. The future users of the Eurofighter are looking to replace large 2nd and 3rd generation aircraft in the multi-role category. The Typhoon is definitely superior to the F-4's, F.3's. F-104's, and even the F-16's in the current European inventory of air-air fighters which it will be replacing. There are also reports of Typhoon pilots getting the jump of F-15 Eagles in UK training areas. It should outclass any other fighter designed and put into service 30 or more years prior to it.

It won't win against the first 5th generation fighter to be put into service, unless there is a serious pilot or tactical advantage influenced by some outside issue or overwhelming numbers. It probably won't ever be in a position to do so either, but you never know. We have had standoffs with F-14's versus F-14's before that we were'nt expecting.

This opinion of the results of studied is backed by a DERA study (prior to the splitup to Qinetiq and DSTL) that gives odds of fighter-on-fighter outcomes with a series of fighters matched against an SU-35 type. The Typhoon was given a 4.5 to 1 advantage while the F/A-22 has a 10.1 to 1 advantage. This shows that the F/A-22 has the clear advantage.
one source (others available offline) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compar...ighter_aircraft

[XiaoNio]

I'm pretty sure the original F-22 design did not make a provision for a cannon whereas the Eurofighter has the mauser cannon... I've been out of the loop for a while though. As for the issue of instability. The majority of airplanes nowadays are made inherently unstable and controlled through fly-by-wire systems. The inherent instability makes for better agility and responses.

So now that I'm a little caught up, I'm going to maintain that the Eurofighter will be at least evenly matched with the F-22. Dogfight maneuverability looks to be similar (canards vs. vectored thrust) and I'd venture the F-22's aerodynamics might go to crap when the ordnance bays open up. As for out of visual range battling, the new American planes have better radar but the European planes have the Meteor missile.

If anything can be said for certain, the Rafale and Eurofighter are certainly much better looking than the F-22. Again I say it's not quite a fair comparison since the F-22 is a much more air superiority based craft whereas the Eurofighter has more roles to play (naval interdiction, ground assault etc.) and is more like the JSF which is clearly not as good as the F-22.

[Impulsed7]

True that the Euro would outmatch the JSF, but the JSF wasnt designed with supiriority in mind. It was designed to be relatively cost effective at multiple roles.