Going for a full-race BMW. FEEDBACK NEEDED.

[deep throat]

This has to be beaten to death, thus all opinions and personal experiences are highly appreciated. We're currently looking into a race-prepped BMW and the debate is the following:

1) Chassis: E30 or E36
2) Engine: S50B30 or S52B32
3) How light can the car get?
4) How competetive the car is against other brands?
5) Say the car is to be fully-fledged as a race car, as a round figure; what's the cost going to look like? We're talking roll cage, one seat, widebody for wider track width, slicks, airbox, BBK, aero kit, etc...

I know lots of people have done this over and over again, but the Middle East is big on JDM race-prepared whips and not so many BMW owners are aware of the car's potential. We're hoping to start the show and rival the EVOs tyrants.

So, any heads up, articles, personal experiences, DO's and DONT's, tricks are highly appreciated and accredited.

[Defacto]

First off, you need to tell us what series and class you'd look to race in. That will determine quite a bit.

[deep throat]

The motorsport scene here hasn't evovled as it is the case in The States. In autox it'd be competing in C-modified (3.0L+) and probably when the rules change it'd be in open-modified. As for track days, it'd also be in the Open category.

UAE-BMW Club is currently being established, once that's up and running it'd take part in BMW Club Racing and other forms of racing we'd be looking at organizing/hosting.

[sjpgoalie]

A full on race car, you could easily get an E36 M3 down to 2500/2600 lbs. Dropping a euro S50 in an E30 M3 would just be a brutal race car if it was prepped.

[deep throat]

The initial plan is buying off a ready E36 M3 EVO (S52), these are becoming somewhat affordable now and would save us many swaps; diff, brakes, and the 6-speed gearbox. However, how solid is the 6-speed on these?

[philsans5]

money money MONEY money!! I like that song. Buy built! I can only give you US costs and my experience with euro motors is limited to 2 cars. Plus, screw those expensive bitches. S54 the thing. And boot the 6 speed unless you're running a 4.45 diff. It weighs an extra 30+ pounds, but strength isn't any better or worse thatn a 5 speed. So, let's shopping list this:
Engine choices:
$3500- 7000
Trannys:
$150- 700
Diff:
$1200-2200
Cage:
6 or 8 point (basic design) $1700- 2000
10- 16 point $3500-6000
Price will also depend on whether or not it's tig or mig welded
Chassis:
That's too open to what you start with, but let's figure $1200-2200
Body kit and aero:
Knock off kits are cheap, but look like crap compared to the real deal, but paint it flat black and nobody will notice!
$1500- 5500 (not installed)
Screw big brakes, they weigh too much and a good set of big stock ones will outperform.
Suspension:
Choices galore:
Basic will be $2500
The best will be over $10000
And you will need good help to dial it in right. more $$$
Keep in mind I haven't even listed flywheels and clutches, safety gear, fuel cell and system, tires for a grand every other time out....
This is already getting out of hand! Ask specific questions and I'll answer them better. This list is depressing me, I could have had a lambo by now.

Buying built will save you a lot of money, I understand BMW race cars are hard to find but it may be worth the wait. The challenge and the bond are great things to do once in your life but time is money too and these builds take awhile. I used to be an E30 guy, but aero helps the E36 a lot more.

[deep throat]

Man, thanks alot...Money money money is my motto song going into this business here too, we on the same boat! Well, costs here would be somewhat cheaper:

1) Low mileage '98 EVO M3 @ $16K-$18K. I'm guessing an S54 is alot of troubles for a first timer. With this initial price for a full car we'd save on tranny, diff, and brakes.

2) Roll cage: It's cheaper here, in the order of ~$1200.

3) Bodykit, agree with you on knock offs painted in balck. Same functionality (hopefully) for a fraction of the cost. We're thinking of a custom rear diffuser.

4) Suspension is the prime of the car performance. I was shocked to learn how expensive a REALLY good set goes for. $10K+ for a 4-way adj. MOTON kit. I'm not into brand names and would love to evolve from cheaper (H&R, Bilstein) coilover kits as needed. These might be just enough for the tracks around here. But I'm not willing to cut corners, especially on suspension. Dialing it in isn't much of a problem, I have my contacts and track seat time will eventually get us the experience needed for this.

5) Misc: clutches, flywheels, subframe upgrades, electronics, engine upgrades, steering, airbox, that will come step by step. I'm not taking a berserker mode from season one.

6) Slicks: Can't live without them!!

Money isn't much of an issue if it's done gradually...

What I'm interested in is to know from experienced folks of hidden obstacles. I'm fully aware of the cost factor, every race activity is heavily affected by funding. What I'm asking about is what's listed before:

1) Why would you go for either chassis; E30 or E36?

2) How reliable is the S50 VS S52 in motorsports? The scene here isn't that competetive yet (mostly autox and trackdays, not very long seasons), so I'm really tempted to have a cutting edge before it's too late. Competetion is always welcome, but now it's rivaling EVOs and Clios on tracks, no DTM machines yet.

As much as I'd LOVE to buy a race-ready BMW, but I don't want to miss on the opportunity of working on the car myself, as much as I can...As I said, funding isn't an issue as long as the project is done in a gradual fashion.

[SG_M3]

Originally Posted by deep throat

1) Chassis: E30 or E36
2) Engine: S50B30 or S52B32
3) How light can the car get?
4) How competetive the car is against other brands?
5) Say the car is to be fully-fledged as a race car, as a round figure; what's the cost going to look like? We're talking roll cage, one seat, widebody for wider track width, slicks, airbox, BBK, aero kit, etc...
.

1) E36 or e46 chassis if you can swing it.
2) s50b32, no doubt or s54
3) 2400 lbs or so
4) Very, once setup it will be a very fast car. But won't hold a candle to a well driven gt3 cup car
5) $20-30k at least.

[deep throat]

Why do you think the S50 is the better option?

S50B32?? Which one would that be??

[Defacto]

S50B32/S50B30=E36 M3 Euro motors.320 and 286bhp, respectively, IIRC. S50B30US and S52B32=US M3 motors, 240hp. They are similar in that they are both inline 6es mounted at 30 degree angles, with an iron block and aluminum head. That's pretty much where the similarities end. If you're going to get the E36 M3 Evo to start, you have a pretty good base with the S50B32, and in no way justifies the swap of an S54. That being said, you will need some motorsport gears to take advantage of the 6 speed, not to mention all of the other aforementioned things. SG_M3 is right on all fronts.

[deep throat]

Thanks man, I know the designations of the M motors, but I thought the Euro M ones were called S52B32 like their US cousins!

Well, thanks for the correction...

I do agree that swapping an S54 isn't justified given the chance of having the S50B32.

[nondescript]

Yes, the 98 M3 EVO in Europe had the S50B32 engine... Yes, that engine - while it requires more maintenance - isn't really much different in power output than the S54... Yes, if I could get my hands on an E36 with the 6-speed and th larger rear end, and the floating rotors and the S50B32... I'd be pretty damn happy. Go forth and conquer...

Oh, but yeah to stand up to a GT3 Cup be prepared to - strip it... get more power in it... replace the shocks with something triple adjustable-ish... Springs, sways, GTR body with down force and room for 17x11" wheels... etc... Then ... Then...

[polizei144]

i can't wait to see you start putting this thing together. ive dreamed many times of doing this to my car.

[deep throat]

Originally Posted by nondescript

Yes, the 98 M3 EVO in Europe had the S50B32 engine... Yes, that engine - while it requires more maintenance - isn't really much different in power output than the S54... Yes, if I could get my hands on an E36 with the 6-speed and th larger rear end, and the floating rotors and the S50B32... I'd be pretty damn happy. Go forth and conquer...

Oh, but yeah to stand up to a GT3 Cup be prepared to - strip it... get more power in it... replace the shocks with something triple adjustable-ish... Springs, sways, GTR body with down force and room for 17x11" wheels... etc... Then ... Then...

nondescript: all what you said is on the agenda. GT3's aren't our target competetion, yet. No cutting corners, I'm trying to build a good reputation for this business. Only build quality and results will do it for me. This is why I'm really after a stock-ish M3 that the crew will get to build and do mistakes in the process. Mistakes = good.

Thank God these cars have finally become affordable; we can start our build, future customers will be able to buy these, and then head our way depending on their budgets and goals from a race car.

Originally Posted by polizei144

i can't wait to see you start putting this thing together. ive dreamed many times of doing this to my car.

Neither can I

[deep throat]

What are the parts mostly prone to track damage, i.e. weakpoints in the E36.