how much camber are some of you running front and back

[Dado]

Right now I have -2.8 front with about a little less then a degree to go in the front.

In the back I have -3.5.

Running on hoosiers SGS.

Pro Imports aligned it for me today just as a base and then we will mess around with it at the track once we get the tire temps. They also installed my camber plates, rear shock mounts, and new differential.

[LITEWAITM3]

You won't get numbers from the guys who are fast

Its a cut throat world in that respect in BMWCCA. Not many guys will share thier setups.

From what you just mentioned, you need to look into getting data on your car and setting it up for yourself. Each car isdifferent, and those settings seem a little off.

To find out what camber will work for your car/tires/etc ...Just grab a tire pyrometer and have your crew take temperatures when you come in off the track, and they will make the proper changes.


Also you know they are called Hoosier SGS because they are the SGS class tires, the actual tire is not called "hoosier SGS"
Heres the GA tire array http://www.hoosiertire.com/grandam.htm

[Max M3]

Originally posted by Dado
Right now I have -2.8 front with about a little less then a degree to go in the front....

More.

heh heh...

f-> -3.12 toe: +1/4"
r-> -2.0

[LITEWAITM3]

What Toe are you running? Since its being trailored now, I suggest you adjust that accordingly with the camber.

Just do everything at one, get the scales out, camber/caster/toe guages, and get itall aligned.

[Max M3]

Well since you brought it up... what might be the proper sequence for getting a car corner weighted (assuming adjustable coilovers)? In other words, should one get an alignment done first then cornerweight, or the other way around?

Seems that adjusting the spring perches will affect an already performed alignment, doing an alignment may possible affect a previously done corner weighting... I just don't know of anyone who can do both simultaneously.

[LITEWAITM3]

You basically answered your own question

When you adjust the height your other alignments are going to change. So corner weight/balance, then set camber/toe and be as consistent as possible.

Depending on your suspension configuration (if you are using stock pickup points, which most are, unless its a purpose race built chassis) the height will be dependant on what you are running, clearances, and the angle of your A-arms. The real purpose of coilovers is to be able to changre weight distrubution, since a racecar should be as low as possible anyways. This is why for example turnermotorsports E46's look very low, because they have moved pickup points. And in some purpose built race and "mod" cars, the roll center can be below the ground, with a CG as low as possible with a good balance (which for e36/e46 is right at 50/50). It gets fairly complicated when instead of tuning suspension you are designing it, choosing pickup points, bellcrank size/ratios, its a little easier with Mcmpherson struts, but theres still quite a bit involved in determined the proper range of camber/caster and toe, that with given tire properties will yield the maximium grip and properlyutilize the suspension.

If you are really interested, you can pickup some Milliken suspension design books.

[Max M3]

Originally posted by LITEWAITM3
You basically answered your own question

Yeah, but it never hurts to have a little backup... ;-)

But to be more specific, my car is a daily driver 1st, auto-xer 2nd, and track car 3rd. I have TCKline Tru-match coilovers, Turner bars, and KMAC camber plates, all on original mounting points. As I'm in the Northeast, I raise the car for the winter and lower it for racing season. Of course that means alignments twice a year too!

This season I want to balance the corners. My basic plan is to:
A. lower to desired height.
B. get alignment done
C. corner balance

To me, that seems the most logical plan...
Again, looking for either confirmation or alternate plan...

[LITEWAITM3]

I would say:

1. Lower the car to desired height without going below the point where your a-arms are parallel to the ground.

2. Get corner Balanced, each corner will probably have its height changed slightly, depending on how accurate your height adjustment was.

3. Get alignemtn of Toe, camber, and caster if needed.

If you have the alignment done first, once you change the heights, the camber/toe will be changed.

Note: If you have a knowledgable shop (any race shop "SHOULD" know how to do it) just tell them what you want. They will know what order to do it in...hopefully

Having an alignment done can also be done at the track when you are dialing in the car. For all conditions/tires/setups your chassis/suspension configuration will be different. If you have the camber plates, tire pyrometer, and proper measurement and normal tools, you should be able to set your front camber in like 20 minutes.

[Scho]

I dont think you should be running that much negative camber in rear. Most guys I talk to are not running near that. It is more like -3 front, -2 rear.

[LITEWAITM3]

It depends on tire and setup. Somepeopelc an be fine with -2front, some might need -6 up front...

[SG_M3]

-3, 0 toe

-2, 1/8" toe in

[LITEWAITM3]

SG I assume your car is a street car more then the track seeing the 0 toe up front.

With the slicks, and it being a trailer-to-track car, you can go about 3/16 toe out fornt, and 1/8 toe in the rear sounds good.

And caster depends on what camber plates you are using, and what else was done when they were installed.

But as for camber, you really have to find out for yourself how it changes with conditions, tires, etc. Really all you need to do is bring the tire pyrometer, and look at the temps...thats your best companion at the track.

[Matthew C Smith]

Yeah I remember a few years back hearing that Pierre was running upwards of -5* up front.

Me?

I'm just at a lowly -2* all around.... I may kick the front up to about -3* in the spring though. We'll see.

[LITEWAITM3]

Just adding more camber in any situation won't always help. He probably runs about -6 becuase he might have Dunlops, they require a bit more camber then other slicks. Each tire/setup has a different setup. No two cars can really have the exact same setup work perfect for them.

[SG_M3]

Originally posted by LITEWAITM3
SG I assume your car is a street car more then the track seeing the 0 toe up front.

With the slicks, and it being a trailer-to-track car, you can go about 3/16 toe out fornt, and 1/8 toe in the rear sounds good.

And caster depends on what camber plates you are using, and what else was done when they were installed.

But as for camber, you really have to find out for yourself how it changes with conditions, tires, etc. Really all you need to do is bring the tire pyrometer, and look at the temps...thats your best companion at the track.

Its my daily driver that sees about 6-10 track events a year. I'm running non-solid rtabs, so i need that much toe in.

No plates, just swapped 96+ hats, and 6+ degrees of caster.

I would love to get a hold of a pyrometer, but don't have one.