People's comparisons to BMWs(M3s) and Audi (S4)....

[Titan325]

I know that everyone has their own opinions about cars and we buy what we like...What I really hate to hear is when a M3vsS4 video comes up and the road condition is wet or just bad, then all of the Audi fans hype up that the S4 smacks the M3, as if it's a better car...everyone has their own opinion, but that is such a ridiculous comment to make, becuase on dry pavement the M3 will smoke the S4 in a race, in their respective models(B5vsE36 and B6vsE46)....I know the B5s are very easy to mod, chip and get 70HP, but the reliability is horrible, I know about 4 people with them and it is one constant problem after another. The development put into the car was very poor and that is why they are now going with the 4.2 v8, which all of the power is not that fast of a car either. Anyways, I was just browsing some Audi posts and stuff that I read just pissed me off and instead of posting on their forums, I felt that I would vent here. To me, Audi has a long way to go before they are even classified in the same class as a BMW or Benz...

[Aur1z]

Audi has a long way to go before they are even classified in the same class as a BMW or Benz... <---You are wrong about this, Look: Audi A6 Named World Car of the Year 2005 ---> http://www.audiworld.com/news/05/021605/content.shtml

[Kevin2772]

I wouldnt go as far to say that the M3's smack the S4's in their respective year comparisons. Both of them are very equal in ability and both of them are outstanding handling cars. I contemplated buying a 2002 used S4 when i was shopping around for my latest car because i was just getting out of a 2000 A4. The practicality of the Audi's is completely unrivaled by BMW and the performance is a bonus. Well needless to say I went with a 2003 M3 SMG instead. One of my best friends from school has a 2004 Nagaro Blue S4 with intake, exhaust, suspension, and its been nothing but a maintanance nightmare for him. As of right now its sitting at the dealership with the front end ripped off and the engine laying on the ground below it. Apparently he had something faulty in the engine and wore the pistons down prematurely (at least that is what audi thinks.) They are giving him all new heads now and are not even 100% sure if that is the problem. Needless to say he refers to it as his "shitbox" because the the reliability issues, something I have yet to face with my M. As for the performance, dont play them down, those thinsg are fast, and handle great.

[One 328is]

There right, Audi is just about the same level as VW. VW might even be a bit ahead now that there really making a class level car that can come close to Benz and BMW.
Audi stepped into forced induction to get a bit of fame going instead of earning it on the back of a strong core of cars.

[XiaoNio]

Originally Posted by One 328is

There right, Audi is just about the same level as VW.

right.

Give Audi its credit. It has put out good products and has come just as far as BMW. I remember someone posted the M3 vs. S4 Top Gear video. It was edited by some BMW fan to say that Jeremy Clarkson's opinions were completely unfounded and that the Stig was an incapable driver. Having experienced both cars, Clarkson was right. The S4 is 98% as capable as the M3 but can hold 4 people much more comfortably than the M3 and is a much more refined drive. As for the Stig, I'm sure a former F1 driver would really have problems extracting the most out of an M3 in comparison to the S4. In either case, they found the cars to be equally fast around the track implying the S4 isn't a shabby car.

That being said... I think a lot of people need to step off their BMW high horse and realize there are other companies that make good cars out there. Audi's build quality is now rivalling Mercedes and its designs seem to do a good job of pushing the progressive/conservative boundary (some would say more than is happening for BMWs). For those who think that Audi can't build a good sporting car... recall original Quattro which was every bit as revolutionary and successful as the E30 M3.

[Titan325]

Originally Posted by Aur1z

Audi has a long way to go before they are even classified in the same class as a BMW or Benz... <---You are wrong about this, Look: Audi A6 Named World Car of the Year 2005 ---> http://www.audiworld.com/news/05/021605/content.shtml

i see, definitely a great prize to win, but alot of it has to do with pricing as well, if you compare the price of the A6, 5 series and Eseries, there is a big price difference..the reason for this, is that Audi is capable of interchaning VW parts with their cars, thus keeping the car price down and selling a great package for a consumer. There is no doubt that Audi definitely deserves the respect for coming out of their horrible 80s when all of their cars were POSs, horrible realibility, etc.

In regards to the B6 S4 and E46 M3, YES, the M3 will eat it up, I was so surprised to see how heavy and slower the acceleration of the S4 was compared to the M3...anyways, everyone has their opinion and yes Audi is a good car, but BMW has made Ms, sport sedans and coupes for years and they have set the standards for others to follow.

[Titan325]

Originally Posted by Kevin2772

I wouldnt go as far to say that the M3's smack the S4's in their respective year comparisons. Both of them are very equal in ability and both of them are outstanding handling cars. I contemplated buying a 2002 used S4 when i was shopping around for my latest car because i was just getting out of a 2000 A4. The practicality of the Audi's is completely unrivaled by BMW and the performance is a bonus. Well needless to say I went with a 2003 M3 SMG instead. One of my best friends from school has a 2004 Nagaro Blue S4 with intake, exhaust, suspension, and its been nothing but a maintanance nightmare for him. As of right now its sitting at the dealership with the front end ripped off and the engine laying on the ground below it. Apparently he had something faulty in the engine and wore the pistons down prematurely (at least that is what audi thinks.) They are giving him all new heads now and are not even 100% sure if that is the problem. Needless to say he refers to it as his "shitbox" because the the reliability issues, something I have yet to face with my M. As for the performance, dont play them down, those thinsg are fast, and handle great.

I've been seeing alot of the newer S's having all types of problems as well...not all the same issue either. Little scary. At least when the 01 M3s had their recall, they knew what the issues were. But, any car can have problems, it just sucks when it's you, becuase they just wont stop.

\

[XiaoNio]

Originally Posted by Titan325

In regards to the B6 S4 and E46 M3, YES, the M3 will eat it up, I was so surprised to see how heavy and slower the acceleration of the S4 was compared to the M3...anyways, everyone has their opinion and yes Audi is a good car, but BMW has made Ms, sport sedans and coupes for years and they have set the standards for others to follow.

The first is clearly not true. Most comparo tests have given similar times for both with the M3 getting a slight edge in acceleration. I would say Audi has made just as many winning sports cars as BMW. In fact, I'm not entirely sure but I think Audi has been making cars longer than BMW has. I believe they had a 1930's car that made 240 mph to compete with Benz's W series of top speed cars. The Audi Quattro revolutionized rally racing while being enormously successful at road racing. The R8 is the most winning car to participate in Le Mans and the A4 DTM has been seeing great success. I agree that BMW has definitely set many benchmarks for sporting luxury cars. But to say that Audi doesn't have an equally rich heritage or ability is just silly.

[Blown M Coupe]

Originally Posted by Titan325
if you compare the price of the A6, 5 series and Eseries, there is a big price difference..the reason for this, is that Audi is capable of interchaning VW parts with their cars, thus keeping the car price down

I challenge anyone to sit in both the new 5 series and the new A6 and say a word in favour of BMW when it comes to interior build quality. I really wanted a new 545is, being a BMW guy. But BMW has lost the plot. The interior design and quality is inexcusable on a $60,000 car. In contrast, the interior design and execution of the new A6 is astounding, and I bought mine without a moment's hesitation.

[Biturbo27]

it is rediculous to think that the m3 would overtake the s4 on a road track sure the m3 blows the s4 away in strait aways but the s4 is very efficient in turning. Both cars shouldnt even be compared in the first place, we are looking at rwd vs quattro if audi was intent on putting out a machine with the power of bmws m3 to gain fame then the rs6 would still be on the market. In my opinion bmw has yet to put out a car like the rs6 why is audi winning the le mans so often...

[95325is]

well i heard the new rs6 wil have a v10 and 7 speed that sounds firmiler

[elise180hp]

Originally Posted by 95325is

well i heard the new rs6 wil have a v10 and 7 speed that sounds firmiler

and some turbo's on that

And the audi's on le mans have absolutely nothing to do with roadcars.

[sjpgoalie]

Originally Posted by Biturbo27

. In my opinion bmw has yet to put out a car like the rs6 why is audi winning the le mans so often...

Because BMW no longer competes with the BMW V12 LMR. And the class they win in is the LMP - Prototype class. The company who spends the most money in the protoype class, wins. Plain and simple. Audi spends hundreds of millions of dollars every year on the R8. And for what? BMW is much more practical. Look around. They are racing in the Speed GT, 24 Hours of Nurbergring, British Touring Car series, and the list goes on. And with what? The M3, 325ci, 328ci, M coupe, and the 320ci. They use production cars. Do you think that people who watch the Le Mans and see Audi mop want to go out and buy an audi? Probably not. But watching them lose to BMWs in the various series i just listed above doesnt either. BMW just finished 1,2 in the 24 Hours of Nurbergring. Great Pic

Using production cars in racing helps sales. Especially when they are winning.

[sjpgoalie]

Originally Posted by Blown M Coupe

I challenge anyone to sit in both the new 5 series and the new A6 and say a word in favour of BMW when it comes to interior build quality. I really wanted a new 545is, being a BMW guy. But BMW has lost the plot. The interior design and quality is inexcusable on a $60,000 car. In contrast, the interior design and execution of the new A6 is astounding, and I bought mine without a moment's hesitation.

If u bought an A6 because of the "interior design", u are an idiot. The A6 with the 4.2L V8 goes 0-60 in 6.0 secs. The 545i goes in 5.7 secs. The 545i looks better as well. Oh, and being the BMW guy you are, u should know that there is no 545is. Just the 545i. The looks of the 545i with the sport package are amazing. The Audi is extremely boring looking. Also the audi weighs about 500 more pounds than the bmw. The 545i is a great combination between sport and luxury. Audi needs to go back to the drawing boards. They put the S4 motor into their A6 also. They've built a heavy, ugly, car with a motor they didnt have to change except some software. Oh, yes, it is very well executed. At least it has supurb "interior design"

[elise180hp]

Originally Posted by sjpgoalie

If u bought an A6 because of the "interior design", u are an idiot. The A6 with the 4.2L V8 goes 0-60 in 6.0 secs. The 545i goes in 5.7 secs. The 545i looks better as well. Oh, and being the BMW guy you are, u should know that there is no 545is. Just the 545i. The looks of the 545i with the sport package are amazing. The Audi is extremely boring looking. Also the audi weighs about 500 more pounds than the bmw. The 545i is a great combination between sport and luxury. Audi needs to go back to the drawing boards. They put the S4 motor into their A6 also. They've built a heavy, ugly, car with a motor they didnt have to change except some software. Oh, yes, it is very well executed. At least it has supurb "interior design"

Why is he an idiot??? If he THINKS its better looking its BETTER LOOKING for HIM! Let him buy whatever car he wants.. if he wanted the 545i he would have but he clearly liked his A6 more.. So f'ing what? The A6 is one hell of a car, I like it and I also like the 545i..
But do you have to bitch all the time??

You cant argue with numbers but who cares about the .3 sec to 60 if you buy a car like that? Would you be racing all the time if you buy such a car? People who drive these cars "i think" buy them not to race but to have a comfy well built ride and have hp whenever they need it. If you have the moeny to buy such a car you buy a race car for the weekends, like his Z3M.