NA M3 help me out im a dummy

[Vladimir L]

I want to buy an E36 M3. I have always wanted one but were too expensive. WELL NOW THANKS TO DEPRECIATION an M3 can cost as much as a civic or less. I see them for 10k-15k all the time. I want to build one with 300-350 HP NA. I want to stroke the motor to a 3.4 I wonder if this is possible? I am a honda guy where I have seen ITR get 250 WHP so why cant an M3 get 300-350! Can you guys post about power NA M3 with 1/4 mile times. I want to run 12's NA. I dont want to use force induction too. Money will not be an issue with me soon. I have some fatty paychecks coming in :-) so give me ideas. I want to do the bottom end too. If I cant reach the power that I want ill just shoot 100 shots of nitrous. Hell I might even shoot nitrous when I have 300-350 NA add 100 shots on top of that.

[E36DJ]

Originally Posted by Vladimir L

I want to buy an E36 M3. I have always wanted one but were too expensive. WELL NOW THANKS TO DEPRECIATION an M3 can cost as much as a civic or less. I see them for 10k-15k all the time. I want to build one with 300-350 HP NA. I want to stroke the motor to a 3.4 I wonder if this is possible? I am a honda guy where I have seen ITR get 250 WHP so why cant an M3 get 300-350! Can you guys post about power NA M3 with 1/4 mile times. I want to run 12's NA. I dont want to use force induction too. Money will not be an issue with me soon. I have some fatty paychecks coming in :-) so give me ideas. I want to do the bottom end too. If I cant reach the power that I want ill just shoot 100 shots of nitrous. Hell I might even shoot nitrous when I have 300-350 NA add 100 shots on top of that.

No offence dude but you are really showing your complete lack of knowledge for these cars and their engines. If you want a drag car, the M3 is probably one of the last cars you will want to be looking at. I seriously can't figure out WHY you would want one if 1/4 times and dyno graphs are what concern you the most. Here are a few things to think about.
-an engine build/bore/stroke job an S52 or any high compression/newer VANOS BMW engine is going to be a MAJOR pain in the ass. Again, no offence, but the engines are extremily delicate and highly tuned from the factory. They do what they were designed to do, and are reliable for those purposes. Work like this would require upwards of $5k, with a lot of custom tuning (at least something big.. which brings me to the next issue.)
-bore/stroke work will not give you 350hp, period. If you go with OBD1 and use an S52 block (from the 3.2L engine in the 96+ model M3s) and bore THAT out to 3.3 and go all out on induction/exhaust plus some badass custom programming and cams you will probably be looking at 300 to the wheels.
-300hp to the wheels (and even 350 that you are shooting for) will not make an M3 run low 12s.
-BMWs are not civics, you can't bore it out, turn the key, and expect things to work. Software work and dyno tuning is a lot more expensive, and few places will do it.
-100 shots of N20? Umm.. "You're lucky that 100 shot of nos didn't blow the welds on the intake" I swear this is exactly the logic running through your head. Nothing you are saying is logical on any car other than a civic, which would blow up too.
-You say fatty paychecks.. you have no idea. Not being arrogant, just saying you are coming from a totally different world where any shop will do work on japanese cars.. parts and service are a lot cheaper - where you can buy exhaust systems at pep boys, etc. There is no competetion between companies for performance parts in the euro market, people charge what they want, and you have to pay it. That's for simple mods - the work you are talking about would run you close to figures approaching 10k (or the low end of the TOTAL cost of the car you were talking about...)
-BTW you won't find an M3 you really want for anything near 10k.
-If you want big HP in an M3 (which you shouldn't.. especially if you are coming from the Japanese scene where it's easier/cheaper and you still have options) you should just go FI. A stage 2 RMS supercharger system will probably end up costing 6k if you look around, and will put your dyno figures exactly where you want.

Hope this helps.

[Vladimir L]

I dont like turbo. As far as tuning knows there are alot of stand alone ecu out there like motec that can get tuned at places like powerhouse which builds F1 cars. A stand alone is a universal ECU for the most part. As far as Honda rice Japanese world goes you have no idea what you are talking about. I wanted to ask about S50 or S52 to learn about them. Pep boy exhuast? Honda does build F1 cars companies such as Mugen, and Toda do build race cars. Toda does mostly Honda but builds parts for JGTC Ferraris too. 10k? Try having guys going into shop and spending 14k to have race engines built which is nothing if you look at it for a race motor. The cars that have that are Honda and they are prob know more about tuning cars then you do. As far as N20 goes if a 1.8L or a 2.2 can handle 75-100 shots with out major issues(When built right) why cant a 3.2? I like drag racing and NA cars. I like auto X its fun but I cant go out to the track every day to take turns at 140 MPH. I know I can get 300 NA HP out of an M and have a car that can handle. I was looking at the Euro Spec E52 motor w/ a 6 speed tranny which goes for about 12k. I know with some bolt ons it can be 300 WHP. NA power also is better then FI power. Sorry but I grew up learning about cars on Honda. I think of it as my 200 WHP Civic beating a 240 HP FI car in all aspects. Better handling , a little quicker , better response and lighter. I love the way the E36 looks. I have also looked into get a 325 or a 318 with high miles since im going to do so much. I am a man with big plans I know I wont do all of this in a year but I can start now :-). I have also had soem friends suggesting a 540i swap , M5 or E34 M5. A buddy of mines has a salvage/dealer license and can get salvaged or wreck m5 and sell me the swap.

For example GT3
Who said BMW are built for boost but people do it? Heck I've seen bimmers with Rotary swaps and 2jz-gte Supra swaps? There are no rules to what a person can do. As long as he has the money, resources and times who cares.

Someone who actually has knowledge about BMW and nitrous please reply. Be constructive and helpful too.

Nice car BTW......

[Suneal]

Alright, Alex (and anyone else who complains about dragracing BMWs), just stop complaining. Your opinion doesn't matter to the people who want to drag their cars. Sure, the cars weren't built for it, but what's the purpose of bickering and complaining about it? I, personally, am biased towards roadracing, but I'm not saying I won't go out to the dragstrip and take my (future) car on a run for fun. I sure won't modify my car towards a dragracing setup, but I'll take it out every so often for fun.

Secondly, if you want all that power, Vladimir, you're going to need to either have an S52 with every bolt-ons, custom tuning, a built engine w/ high-compression pistons, or an S52B32 (euro M3 3.2 motor) with some cams, high-comp pistons, and custom tuning. FYI, I've never seen a naturally-aspirated, street-driven, S52B32US-powered (S52B32US is the US-spec E36 M3 3.2) M3 with 300-350 RWHP. It's quite feasible, but there's a reason why nobody's done it: TOO MUCH MONEY! You could have much higher results resorting to forced induction (may it be a turbocharger or supercharger). That's your choice, though.

If you decide to go through with this, contact Alex McHenry at [emaill]mchewa0@wfu.edu[/email]. He is the son of Pete McHenry, one of (if not the) best BMW engine builders out there. Him and his dad will be able to help you out with your engine if you decide against going with a euro motor.

I barely know anything about nitrous. All I know is to NOT go with Zex (search for 'Zex' and username 'luckybmw'), and to go with Nitrous Express. If you want more information on nitrous, check out DTM's forced induction forum or Bimmerforums' forced induction forum (the latter being the more active).

And lastly, if you ever have questions about E36s, post in the E36 Tech section, not General Discussion. A moderator will probably move this thread over into that forum.

[Vladimir L]

Thanks thats good helpful info. In the Honda world people say Type R arent meant for drag racing that they are for road racing. They say people shouldnt turbo charge a Type R because of its 11:1 compression. Alot of things shouldnt be done and people still do them.

[E36DJ]

Originally Posted by Vladimir L

Thanks thats good helpful info. In the Honda world people say Type R arent meant for drag racing that they are for road racing. They say people shouldnt turbo charge a Type R because of its 11:1 compression. Alot of things shouldnt be done and people still do them.

OK why did you even ask the questions above if there was only one answer that you wanted to hear? I don't care what you say, everything I said was a FACT. As far as the riced out honda image goes, I never said you followed it or that you had a riced out car, I was simply trying to explain to you that the markets for each type of car are very different.

You need to understand without taking offence that the engines you will be dealing with if you get an M3 are significantly more advanced and complicated than what you were dealing with before. Because of this, and the fact that there is little demand for custom tuning in the euro world, it's going to be a LOT MORE EXPENSIVE. Yes it can be done, I never said it couldn't be done, but it's simply pointless when there are cheaper cars to be had out there which will go a LOT faster for the money, which is why I said M3s were not made for drag racing.. I've contemplated selling my car several times for some sort of FI Japanese car.. I simply like the image the M3 carries with it, and know that I would take advantage of the power in a car like that 2% of the time I drive it.
Suneal, I'm not complaining, but I hope you see where I'm coming from with my argument. Who needs 50/50 weight distribution, perfect steering, leather seats, 8 speakers, etc.. out of a car that you want to go extremily fast down the 1/4? It's a BMW and you PAY for those features, things which you'll never need. It's a perfect car for a daily driver and weekend autox or track car, where people still want to bring their friends to movies, go on dates, etc.. in the mean time.
Think of how fast you could make a stripped out civic hatch w/ some insane swap and massive turbo run in the 1/4 with $30k.

[Mark_In_PA]

if u want a cheap car to run straight get an old mustang 5.0 or a camaro. they can be made to go fast for real cheap and are designed to go in a straight line. the M3 will cost you quite a bit.