Highest N/A numbers?

[Phunkatek]

Well, Ive been hanging around the F/I section for a while and I've seen the types of numbers being put down there and everyone always seems to go the F/I route for power. So I'd like to know if there is anyone out there in their quest for big numbers who has decided NOT to go F/I with their bmw, and what kind of results they have acheived with what kind of mods. Thanks.

[BLACKTAPE]

Just ballparking here but I think for the 95M3, 350hp NA is pretty much pushing it to the max.

[Phunkatek]

Hot damn have you seen someone with a n/a M3 go that high? I'd like to know what they did cuz it must have been a shitload of mods to get that much power- that's higher than most s/c'd bmws I've seen around here. That's quite nice.

[petar7408]

i dont think it can get 350 without FI

bmw's are made fine tuned, not much more you can do without FI

[MrPayne]

Highly tuned N/A motors from the factory virtually have no ability to be tuned further while maintaining stock displacement.

[Phunkatek]

Originally posted by MrPayne
Highly tuned N/A motors from the factory virtually have no ability to be tuned further while maintaining stock displacement.

Wha? You mean buying a motor which has already been tuned from the factory? If that's the case then wouldn't the question be how far has the factory tuned the motor? Are you saying that bmw motors already come 'highly tuned'? I would think there's always room for improvement on any factory motor. Because of the mass production of a motor, there's only so far you can go in tuning before you start to lose money on selling it because of all the money you have to put in each one in the first place to get it so 'highly tuned'.

[SG_M3]

You can get great power N/A out of the s50/S52. What motor is in your ti?

[Van Wilder]

Some people on Bimmerforums are pushing 300+ HP in their NA M3's. One person that comes to mind is LandShark. Arman is also pushing close to 300 HP.

[KCRuneekVW]

I agree, without F/I or changing displacement there is only so much u can do to an engine. But Theres always something to build on, cams, flywheels...all that.

But I have two questions if anyone can help. I recently Got my M, so I havent had much time to study up on the engines, while tryin to achieve good enough grades in college to get da job thatll let me tune da PISS out my ///M. WHy do I hear of a lot of people trying to convert their OBDIIs to OBDI formats. what are the advantages of doin this, what kind of power gains are there, and what are u changing parts wise.

Two..what are the differents between the Euro Ms and our Ms over here, that make such a big difference in power. Is it displacement, engine configuaration, software and engine mapping differences. Personally I feel we get da F$@#ing shaft here in da US of A...in terms of cars, Japan gets all their lil jap toys of civ's and Ludes...with wayyyy more power, and Europe gets da doper ///M...not fair


OKKK...make it 3 questions. What Mods would u do, in what order to obtain maximum performance gaims and stay naturally aspirated....I mean i know the easy ones, air flow, INtake exhaust, but what else afthe that and a chip.

and whats a HFM?....sorry if im retarded

[PrinceE30]

Full Header back exhaust.
Port and Polish the head.
Solid valve lifters.
Better springs.
Lighter rods and pistons.
Increase compression.
Cams.
Dsible 6 throttle intake.
Knife edged crank.
Spark plugs (Denso)
Ignition coils.
Aftermarket ECU (Motec or Tec3) - bypass HFM, etc...

Anything I'm missing?

-Prince

[SG_M3]

Originally posted by KCRuneekVW

WHy do I hear of a lot of people trying to convert their OBDIIs to OBDI formats. what are the advantages of doin this, what kind of power gains are there, and what are u changing parts wise.

Most people convert to OBDI because its easier to tune. But now OBDII has almost caught up, you don't need to convert to OBDI. The power gains come from the intake manifold, which flows more air than the OBDII manifold. You can swap the manifold with out converting to OBDI.

Its also federally illegal to convert to OBDI. Also here in Dallas, if you have an OBDII car the car gets inspected by the OBDII port.

Two..what are the differents between the Euro Ms and our Ms over here, that make such a big difference in power. Is it displacement, engine configuaration, software and engine mapping differences.

The US motor and Euro motor really have nothing in common. Think of the US spec motor as a bored and stroked 2.8. The Euro motor is a totally different beast, more like the S54.

What Mods would u do, in what order to obtain maximum performance gaims and stay naturally aspirated....I mean i know the easy ones, air flow, INtake exhaust, but what else afthe that and a chip.

and whats a HFM?...

Since you are OBDII, intake, exhaust and pulleys are a great start. The Euro HFM really isn't needed until you add cams to the car. Or you could just save up and get the Jim Conforti cam kit http://www.sharked.com/cams.html It has everything you will need.

An HFM is a Hot Film Meter, it meters the incoming air to the motor.

[SG_M3]

Originally posted by PrinceE30
Full Header back exhaust.
Port and Polish the head.
Solid valve lifters.
Better springs.
Lighter rods and pistons.
Increase compression.
Cams.
Dsible 6 throttle intake.
Knife edged crank.
Spark plugs (Denso)
Ignition coils.
Aftermarket ECU (Motec or Tec3) - bypass HFM, etc...

Anything I'm missing?

-Prince

If you are building the ultimate track motor yes.

For a street moto, ditch the solid lifters, 6 TB (its not needed, unles you do a euro swap).

That motor you listed is probably 8-12K from Stickley or McHenry, and not the most streetable. If you want the best race motor Chuck Stickley can build you a ~370 hp motor that will last 30 hours.

I think Alex McHenry had the ulitmate street motor.
86mm bore, with honed walls
-89.6mm 3.2L nitride-hardened forged crankshaft (factory new)
-11:1 machined pistons
-M3 135mm factory rods
-3.0 M3 camshafts
-Conical M3 valvetrain
-S52 valve retainers
-Full race headjob with heavy porting, valve reshaping, guide shaping, relief grinding, and valve job.
-OBDI wiring/ECU
-OBDI intake manifold
-21.5# Bosch injectors (flow tested by Active Autowerke)
-3.5" Euro MAF sensor
-Active Autowerke 3.5" air intake with K&N cone
-Active Autowerke custom software
-Active Autowerke 12lbs 240mm Aluminum flywheel (available with or without)
-Aluminum thermostat housing
-Late-model metal water pump impeller
-Low temp thermostat
-Balance and blueprint

Thats a 250 rwhp motor on stock cams! It really depends on what your goals for the car to decide on how radical a motor to go.

[Rob ITR1035]

dont forget alex also has the stock manifold, so there is definately uptapped power potential in that motor....

[KCRuneekVW]

SG_M3 ...thanks a ton, u were a great help, u kno ur stufff, Damn i wish My professors at college could answer my questions that well, Id be a freakin genious by now. Yea, Im just looking to get the best output from my motor and maximize efficiency, with what it has. I dont have the Money for a s/c or turbo, so I thought this would be the way to go. THanks again for all the Info

And Side note the Boston Greeen was my fav color but impossible to find, Got lucky on the Titanium Silver, after that it was Estroil or Techno...or cosmos blk

[BayBimmerM3]

so how much would dan's motor cost or something like alex's cost? and how about engine life vs. fi?