vanos vs non-vanos

[BeArs]

Hey, as u guys can see I have a non-vanos car. I was looking up car stats for my car and vanos cars. Up until around 94... my car had better 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. I'm trying to understand what exactly vanos means and why the 92 was faster stock wise, then the models up to 94 to follow. Sorry but am newb to the way bmw engines work

[BMWGuy206]

http://www.bmwworld.com/technology/vanos.htm

[Duckydos]

BeArs... it's pretty much VTEC in a BMW.

BMW has also used a cam phasing system, called VANOS (Variable Onckenwellen Steuerung) for several years. Like the other manufacturers, this system only affected the intake cams.

.

It allows the intake valves to open at different positions at different RPMs. Under heavy load the intake valves will open later to allow more compression per rev. The whole thing is a big mystery to me (for the most part) as well.

As for your being faster then previous models... Car technology is evolving every year, so you find that performance will increase steadily over the years. The biggest improvement that may be specific for your car is the use of OBD (on board diagnostic). The OBD-I allowed your car to monitor itself, adjust it's on fuel allotment (by that, if you are driving the car hard day to day, it will feed the engine more gas). I am not sure when OBD was implimented on the 3series BMW's, but OBD was first introduced in 1981 but didn't make it's way to most cars till the mid 80's. There are many other factors, even down the better oils used to lubricate the engines, transmissions that do not slip as bad (increased power to the wheels, less loss of power, etc), improved tire technology... many factors that don't even take into account an actual change in the BMW engine itself.

I hope this helps, I feel like I am just rambling now :\
Ducky

[BeArs]

it has helped... very much so to many it might be a dumb question but I'm trying to learn as much about the car I'm driving as possible. I'm gonna minor in mechanics in college b/c frankly I just love cars. It'd be a great job to have on the side

[Baby M3]

Sorry,

Whatever stats you were looking at may not be accurate.

I have never come across a stat that quotes a 92' non vanos engine being faster than the 93' + vanos.

Many people will argue that the non-vanos engine has a stronger top end and perhaps faster in the highway speeds. I don't disapprove of their arguments.

However, the facts are:

1. The fastest non vanos BMW had never been quoted less than 7 seconds from 0-60 by any magazine whatsoever. At least not to my knowledge.

2. The fastest stock 325 was a stick 325is with vanos in the June, 1993 issue of Car and Driver. That car did 6.5 sec from 0-60mph.

3. The fastest stock automatic 325 was an automatic 325i with vanos in the August, 1994 issue of Car and Driver. That car did 7.7 sec from 0-60mph.

The 92's were rather slow according to the magazines. Usually high 7s for sticks and high 8s to low 9s for automatics.

Again, I am not dissing on non vanos 325s. I have one myself.

However, I look at numbers from various sources which were obtained from professional drivers with proper test equipments. I think I have just pretty much memorized all of the stats for these E36 325s from 1992 up to 1999 issues of various car magazines.

It would be interesting if someone can show me a non vanos 325 being quoted under 7 sec. from a source.

Jon

[BeArs]

hey I'm not saying I was right I'm merely going by the statistics I saw in sights. Like I said I just want to learn guy so help me out

[Baby M3]

So where's your stat???

Jon

Originally posted by BeArs
hey I'm not saying I was right I'm merely going by the statistics I saw in sights. Like I said I just want to learn guy so help me out

[Duckydos]

Yea bEaRs, I am a mechanical engineering (freshman) major, although will probably switch to physics. I enjoy the actual design and mechanics of something, the tangiable, but I hate the math (calc) behind it all. Anyways, I went off on a tangent here that proves what a big nerd I am.
I know exactly what you mean. There will be days where I will just "fix" my car... I say "fix" because it keeps my parents off my back, but in reality, I am usually taking off the head of my engine or rebuilding my drums, anything really. I just like being able to see what I read about, and actually touch it Sadly, I usually don't do as good of a job putting it back together. olo
As for the non-vanos, I would be guessing (but not sure) that it runs a lower fuel : air ratio (that's the way it is with VTEC, at least), so higher boost would be achievable if turbo'd.

What school do you hope to be going to? Just curious.

And BabyM3, why are you riding this kid's case? He was just curious, he isn't trying to come on here and prove anything, so why you trying to prove him wrong?

[Baby M3]

I am not trying to prove him wrong.

This topic has been discussed thousands of times here on DTM and Bimmerforums, to name a few. And if my memory serves me correctly, Bears had seen/read all these posts.

I just don't see a need to beat a horse that's been killed hundreds of times already.

Bear already knew the answers to his questions and yet he's asking them again and again. That doesn't really make sense. He could've simply searched for his answers by using the search function.

I was not intending to prove him wrong. Read my posts carefully. I merely said that the stats. I gathered reflected a different result.

Notice I've also acknowledged that the arguments for non vanos engines are not incorrect as well.

By the way. You were answering his questions incorrectly. Bear was asking why his 92' 325i is outperforming latter model 325s. Instead you gave him explanations about technology's evolution. I believe that's not what he wanted to find out.

Jon

Originally posted by Duckydos
Yea bEaRs, I am a mechanical engineering (freshman) major, although will probably switch to physics. I enjoy the actual design and mechanics of something, the tangiable, but I hate the math (calc) behind it all. Anyways, I went off on a tangent here that proves what a big nerd I am.
I know exactly what you mean. There will be days where I will just "fix" my car... I say "fix" because it keeps my parents off my back, but in reality, I am usually taking off the head of my engine or rebuilding my drums, anything really. I just like being able to see what I read about, and actually touch it Sadly, I usually don't do as good of a job putting it back together. olo
As for the non-vanos, I would be guessing (but not sure) that it runs a lower fuel : air ratio (that's the way it is with VTEC, at least), so higher boost would be achievable if turbo'd.

What school do you hope to be going to? Just curious.

And BabyM3, why are you riding this kid's case? He was just curious, he isn't trying to come on here and prove anything, so why you trying to prove him wrong?

[Duckydos]

Yes, I re-read that and you are right. The mind plays tricks on you at 2am (I guess thats the reason that I stay up so late). As for not looking up the answers on his own, I understand what you mean. I guess the reason that I actually answer these 1/2 assed questions is because I find out myself in the process. And they say that teaching it to others is the best way to learn... Anyways. rock on, rocker...

[Baby M3]

That's very true.

You definitely provided some useful info in your posts.

Thanks for your contribution. I did learn something new in this thread.

Jon

Originally posted by Duckydos
Yes, I re-read that and you are right. The mind plays tricks on you at 2am (I guess thats the reason that I stay up so late). As for not looking up the answers on his own, I understand what you mean. I guess the reason that I actually answer these 1/2 assed questions is because I find out myself in the process. And they say that teaching it to others is the best way to learn... Anyways. rock on, rocker...

[gC-]

Baby M3 is right, there is no use beating a dead horse again and again .... stats are relative to driver, but when 2 equally-experienced driver drive old BMW and new BMW, the newer one always win ... because that's what R&D in BMW are for ... if older one is better than newer one, well .. I think the R&D would be dismissed..

[Baby M3]

That's a very good point gC.

As much as I want to see the non vanos BMW performing as well as, if not better than, the newer vanos version, there's just not enough proof out there to justify this argument.

It would be interesting for DTMers to stage a vanos and non vanos 325 with similar options/mileage/mods. for a 0-60mph sprint. The drivers can then switch around to see if it makes any difference.

That should shed some lights on this dead horse.

Jon

Originally posted by gC-
Baby M3 is right, there is no use beating a dead horse again and again .... stats are relative to driver, but when 2 equally-experienced driver drive old BMW and new BMW, the newer one always win ... because that's what R&D in BMW are for ... if older one is better than newer one, well .. I think the R&D would be dismissed..

[Duckydos]

I still think the non-vanos could handle more boost if turbo'd. That is just a hunch.

(Speaking of which, I raced an Eclipse GS-T tonight... and lost horribly. I could smell the race gas instantly. I met up with him at a parking lot, and apparently hit 2.4 BAR... that's almost 34psi... anyways, thought I would share, that's an insane amount of boost for a street car.)

[BeArs]

wow... I'm sorry I even asked babym3. First off u said I knew the answers to my questions. I did and I didn't. I asked for feedback so I could be sure. I never said I knew them for a certainty I merely asked for feedback from bmw owners. I got the stats from car-stats.com and a few others. Don't attack me attack them. Also shit, am sorry but I didn't even realize this topic had been reviewed b4. I haven't been at this forum THAT long to kno that. #$@# relax man shit. I stated from the beginning that I'm learning. I'm sorry for not being as knowledgable as you...

Duckydos : I'm heading off to stony brook for a psychology major soon. But my uncle is a mechanic, he and the shop he works at are gonna help me pull the mechanic minor =)