Porsche 944S/ turbo

[klasic]

I think when they are clean and lowered a little they look good.....

[klasic]

Originally posted by DGuy
Hey Klasic you seem pretty knowledgeable about this car. Can you please tell me what ballpark figures with reasonably low mi. on the cars you recomended are and ballpark on what yours would go for. I would be very interested in looking more into these in the future. If you dont want to post you can pm me thx.

Price ranges, sure no problem, but they are going to be fairly broad ranges because they seem to be all over the board. I'm going to list prices for the cars in good shape, ie most records, and work is up to date, cars in bad shape can be found for 3-4k often.

1986: 6,000 - 9,000
1987-88 (non S): 6,000-10,500
88 (s) - 89: 8,500 - 14,000

Now those are cars in good shape, if you find a real creampuff they can go much higher, I've seen them sell in the 19k range for a 89 w/ 30k miles in mint condition....

Now for modified cars like mine, it is more about finding the right buyer for the car. I can't sell car that is as stiff as mine to just anyone. But Considering I have a solid shell, the car has has all the required work done to it, and fresh paint, plus about 6k in after market parts (not labor) I'd say my car is worth 10k to someone....

[stjobs]

I will have about $9k to work with in 6 months. To the guy who said I already have a weekend car, I actually don't. the Z3 is my daily driver and I am holding off on doing many mods to it.

Plus, what is the point in having money if you don't spend it? At this point in my life I want to have fun.

There is a 1987 944S with 57k miles with all maintenance receipts 9 miles from me... they want $8500 for it. Midnight blue with black interior. I think I will check it out this weekend, not to buy, but just to get a feel for one specimen of the model. Thanks for the all the varying opinions.

I have no problem with doing the maintenance myself... is there any way I can rent that damn belt tensioning tool?

stjobs

[klasic]

I know you said you were not going to get it, but 8,500 for a 944S is a rip, only if it was museum quality should it get that much.

The 944S is the 944 to avoid in my mind, you end up with the first 16v motor. And normally 16v motors are good things, but not in this case, they are hard to get any more hp out of and just have no torque (draw back of the 16v head same reason subaru went back to 8v heads in the us market, torque)....

Anyway, around town the earlier 944's feel better, and the earlier cars are easier to maintain (no worries about the cam gear breaking).....

Just my point of view some people like them (and they have good classing in SCCA racing)...

[///M3 Kevin]

Klasic, I know I should be PMing this, but I emailed you about your car. I am interested.

Now, this is on topic, how does a 944s/turbo/sturbo/whatever compare to an e30 m3? I'm just talking car for car, removing name legacy and what not i.e. which is a better made car that has better performance?

[Rob ITR1035]

Ian (klasic) and I have been having the E30 M3 vs 951 debate for a while now.

Here's some of the high points:
-Speed: 951 wins, its a turbo, cheap HP, nuff said

-Handling: this is a very close call, i'd say they were about equal stock for stock, with the 951 having a ever so slight edge. basic susp. upgrades are cheaper for the M3 though, making the handling debate even tougher.

Braking: 951. no contest IMHO

Exterior: both have boxed style flares, but the 951 is more sleek, more aggressive looking, and way more aerodynamic. as for looks, well thats subjective

Interior: I feel cramped in side 951s, but Ian is taller and doesnt, so *shrug*. I personally prefer the ergo of the BMW better, but thats just me.

Overall, they are both great cars, but the 951 is easily the better bang for the buck, great handling, easy HP, fast stock. but then again, the E30 M3, is well undescribable.....

hope this helps

[///M3 Kevin]

I talked to my dad about the 951, and he says his friend (this guy knows his cars, he just sold a caddie for over 2 million) tells him that the 951 is horribly unreliabe and expensive as far as parts go. Much more so than BMW parts, at least.

[PhillyCheese]

my dad just bought a 928 GT, not that you can compare a 944 to it, but its a great car!

[///M3 Kevin]

What year is that, phillycheese?

[klasic]

Kevin,

I'll get back to you on the email...

But as far as reliablity, well if you have one that is neglicted then yes it will be unreliable. The problem is there are lot of car that were not modified in the right way. Air / Fuel ratio is important in any car, but screwing it up on turbo car is that much easier because you can just dial up the boost. So beware cars that people claim to have 300 hp but are running the stock turbo and just authority chips and a boost controller, odds are they have quick cars but the head gasket is about to blow, or they are burning valves very badly because of bad mixtures. (I'd get into why headgaskets blow, but its not because of the boost like most people think, or it is not in most situaitons).

Other things people neglect, timing betls / water pump / rod bearings. If either of these two fails you'll have a big rebuild bill in front of you, but thats the same with any car. Is a full rebuild more expensive on a 951 motor, well yeah it wouldn't be cheap, but there are a lot of motors from wrecked ones for sale for a could k that is a better option if you can't hack a rebuild.

But these cars when taken care of are very reliable, we have some on the board with well over 200k on the original motor. If you boost the motor to 20psi don't expect it to last forever, but thats like reving the crap out of an NA motor all the time, I just causes more wear and tear.

As with anything, buy a good example if you can, or buy what you can afford and fix the major things and don't let the little things bother you.

[klasic]

O yeah, and the M3 / 951 agument I think rob hit most of the points, it comes down to what you want the car for and what one you have a better feel for.

I love the e30 M3 (fav in the M line), but i'm on my 3rd 951 because they are to me the best dollar value and a hell of a lot of fun. My dream is still the garage full of the box fendered cars.

951
e30 M3
Audi UR quattro
Skyline

[Kevin]

If you can find a well sorted modded 951, I say go for it, if u really like the 951. You can get alot of power out of it and it handles and brakes good.

I was considering getting a 951 when I bought my M3, but I discovered that they are very unreliable, not that the E30 M3 has lexus reliability or anything. my friend had a basic 944 and it was a nightmare, slow as balls too, I regularly beat the hell out of it when racing it in my 190,000 mile stock E30 325. I think the M3 definitly wins on coolness factor, respect, and it is destined to become a classic. If I'm gettin a porsche, its gonna an engine in the back.

[///M3 Kevin]

Thanks a lot, Ian. Please do return my email to hydralot@hotmail.com . When do you get on AIM?

What sort of miles should I be looking for in a 944? How many do your three have? How much do these cars weigh? They look like they are probably heavier than e30's and about as much as e36's.

Do these cars make good project cars? My father, a friend of ours, and I are going to be making a project car. I have speed, aesthetics and ergonomics in mind. Is this a good car for those things (I think it looks good, so that covers aesthetics)?

How much would you say it costs to maintain one of these cars per year, assuing I do not have to pay for labor. Paul, a friend of my father and me, restores cars for a living, and I will be learning how to work on this car so all labor will be done by us.