Nitrous is half the equation, what about fuel?

[94_325is]

hi. i've been reading some things about nitrous on this board and alot of ppl say running a 50-100 shot of juice on a bimmer is no problem.. but what about fuel? im more of a turbo guy myself and theres alot of japanese electronics that can manipulate the air flow meter(or whatever you want to call it) for turbocharged cars. For example SAFC and things like that. What about nitrous? if running a 50-100 shot of juice on our cars is safe, then installing a turbocharger which bumps hp up 50-100hp is also safe without fuel control then right? if not, then what makes nitrous so special that it doesnt need fuel upgrades? im sure there are nitrous electronics+fuel pressure regulators that can bump fuel pressure up whenever the juice is flowing but how come nobody is using any of those? im very interested in installing a nitrous system for my bimmer but i just cant understand why running an extra 50-100hp on an engine doesnt require anymore fuel than stock.

[Scho]

Our fuel systems are able to keep up with an extra 100 hp. If you are talking about a turbo in the case of AA, they put out close to 400 hp which is an upgrade of 160 on an M3. Try and run a 160 shot with no fuel upgrades and your engine is toast. Turbos use custom chips that manipulate the fuel supply by themselves, and why the hell would you spend $10000 for an extra 50-100 hp from a turbo???.

EDIT: In my Nitrous system, fuel and nitrous are injected together. That is what is known as a "wet" system which is said to be safer.

[E-36 Tuner]

then installing a turbocharger which bumps hp up 50-100hp is also safe without fuel control then right?

The fuel control is managed by software,larger injectors and MAF sensor. This is included in the turbo or S/C kit for you car.

im very interested in installing a nitrous system for my bimmer but i just cant understand why running an extra 50-100hp on an engine doesnt require anymore fuel than stock.

It does require more fuel. With a dry kit nitrous system your MAF senses the increase in colder oxygen, relays the info to the ecu which sends more fuel through the injectors.

A wet kit puts fuel and n20 in the intake after the MAF.

I think the biggest shot available in a NON directport is 75hp

[94_325is]

thanks for the reply. now i understand more. i know when the maf(if thats what u wanna call it) senses more air entering your engine it adjusts the fuel accordingly whether it be increasing duty cycle to the injectors or raising fuel pressure(i think increasing duty cycle). now that makes sense. so is a dry system a little bit safer than a wet system? and i guess the nitrous jets would be plummbed before the MAF, and thats near the intake i suppose? thanks.

scho: yes i have heard that a wet system is safer also, but i just cant understand how the ecu is going to know if more fuel is needed. the amount of fuel sprayed into an engine depends on a number of factors, what the MAF reads, TPS, engine temp etc..., but most importantly the MAF. If the maf doesnt know that more air is entering the engine, then how can it tell the ecu to increase duty cycle? the only thing i can think of is that the BMW'S engine is really strong, strong heads and all. thats why detonation is minimal. other than that, i think the engine is running lean and wearing down quite quickly. much faster than if were to add fuel into the equation. timing is also crutial, but not for 100extra hp.

[luckybmw]

Originally posted by E-36 Tuner

It does require more fuel. With a dry kit nitrous system your MAF senses the increase in colder oxygen, relays the info to the ecu which sends more fuel through the injectors.

A wet kit puts fuel and n20 in the intake after the MAF.

I think the biggest shot available in a NON directport is 75hp

it is impossible to put nitrous before the maf without killing it. even on the dry kits the nitrous comes in after the maf. the increase in fule on my zex kit is controlled by the nitrous pressure. the zex kit taps into the fuel pressure regulator hose and forces more fuel in by using the nitrous pressure as a vacum. it is not recommended to go above a 75 shot on a dry kit, but rules are made to be broken.

scho, what size jets does your nx kit come with? where does it tap into the fuel line?

[JCM3]

I also have an NX kit and the fuel is taped on the fuel feed line going into the fuel rail.

[VANOSNinja]

What are advantages or disadvantages when going with a wet or dry nitrous kit? I'm very curious to know...

[Scho]

Originally posted by JCM3
I also have an NX kit and the fuel is taped on the fuel feed line going into the fuel rail.

Have you run at the 1/4 mile with the NX kit on your M3? I am still working on my install. My dad has been in the hospital all week and so Nitrous is the last thing on my mind.

Luke, the jets are for 35, 50, and 75 that came with the kit. I talked to them about 100 wet shot, but we will see how the 75 does first.

[luckybmw]

Originally posted by Scho


Have you run at the 1/4 mile with the NX kit on your M3? I am still working on my install. My dad has been in the hospital all week and so Nitrous is the last thing on my mind.

Luke, the jets are for 35, 50, and 75 that came with the kit. I talked to them about 100 wet shot, but we will see how the 75 does first.

what did nx say about running a 100 shot?

[E-36 Tuner]

Luke, what I explained is how most of the kits work I was not
refering to ZEX or VENOM nitrous kits, if he asked a specific
question about a specific kit then I would have tryed to help with a specific answer but this is how the kits that I have worked with operate.

it is impossible to put nitrous before the maf without killing it. even on the dry kits the nitrous comes in after the maf.

EVERY dry nitrous system that I have installed and EVERY dry nitrous system that I am familiar with injects the nitrous before the MAF. If you have installed a dry kit that is different than this please tell me I'm here to learn, also tell me how the car knows to add the extra fuel needed to compensate for the nitrous. And again I am not refering to your ZEX kit.

Thanks,

Josh

[Brad D.]

Originally posted by E-36 Tuner
Luke, what I explained is how most of the kits work I was not
refering to ZEX or VENOM nitrous kits, if he asked a specific
question about a specific kit then I would have tryed to help with a specific answer but this is how the kits that I have worked with operate.




EVERY dry nitrous system that I have installed and EVERY dry nitrous system that I am familiar with injects the nitrous before the MAF. If you have installed a dry kit that is different than this please tell me I'm here to learn, also tell me how the car knows to add the extra fuel needed to compensate for the nitrous. And again I am not refering to your ZEX kit.

Thanks,

Josh

The kit that we are referring to is the Zex, and it most DEFINITELY injects the N20 after the MAF. On the BMW E36 there is an elbow right after the MAF, where the nitrous is usually injected...right before the throttle body. Luke has a rubber elbow there, mine has been upgraded to aluminum for my turbocharger kit.

[luckybmw]

Originally posted by E-36 Tuner
Luke, what I explained is how most of the kits work I was not
refering to ZEX or VENOM nitrous kits, if he asked a specific
question about a specific kit then I would have tryed to help with a specific answer but this is how the kits that I have worked with operate.




EVERY dry nitrous system that I have installed and EVERY dry nitrous system that I am familiar with injects the nitrous before the MAF. If you have installed a dry kit that is different than this please tell me I'm here to learn, also tell me how the car knows to add the extra fuel needed to compensate for the nitrous. And again I am not refering to your ZEX kit.

Thanks,

Josh

huh, i guess you learn something new everyday. i was completely under the impression that nitrous would kill the maf if injected prior to it on ALL cars. i know on bmw's because of the heated film the maf uses the nitrous will ruin it. seedster has the nos kit on his 328 and it injects after the maf also. please explain how nitrous being injected prior to the maf on any car will not overload it, i am curious how this works. thanx.

[Scho]

I think on ALL kits it is supposed to be injected after the MAF. I have never seen nor heard about putting it before unless it was some prehistoric Nitrous kit. I would never put it before.

Just think, direct port kits put it directly into the manifold. That is about as far from the MAF you can get.

[UBEHIND]

ALL of the DRY kits for the new camaro, firebird and corvette LS1 engines inject the nitrous B4 the MAF sensor. the way it works is the sensor sees the drop in air temp, therefore denser air and more O2, and adds the corresponding amount of fuel. it actually works pretty darn well. the kits available include NOS, TNT, nitrous works, and maybe more. needless to say, it is a VERY easy install. and, no, it dosent ruin the MAF sensor on these engines.

i think that the mustangs are the same way...maybe just a domestic thing.

i thought that the BMW kits worked the same way (based on the advertisement pics that i have seen), and may have led E-36 Tuner to some false info about the BMW dry kits.

i personally run the NX wet kit that uses a fogger nozzle in the intake tract. currently jetted @ 100hp. (approx 500 crank HP)

[luckybmw]

you got me thinking now. what type of element do the domestic maf's use in them? ours are a heated film. i'm gonna email zex about this and find out what they say. thanks for all the good info. how do you like that harlan shift light? i was thinking about getting one.