Affects of Turbos on engine?

[BIMMERRACER]

I am planning on putting an AA stage 2 or 3 turbo for my 1996 328is with 162,356 miles on it. I read that the engine blocks are made of cast iron and welcome high boost and if the engine has more miles it tends to be stronger then a newley rebuild one. So i am woundering if my engine will accomidate the hp with this many miles?

I am also curious about turbos aswell because I was told by others at a different forums that Turbos only mess up the piston rings of the egnine? I really think they are wrong because from my understanding Turbos mess up the internals of the engine and do a big number on it aswell and you relly need to do some after market changes to help the engine out to take the boost.

[Highboosted]

A "seasoned" engine is good to start with, an "old" engine is not. Seasoned means used and rebuilt with new parts, "old" means it just has high miles. Things wear out, and putting more stress on an old engine just makes it kick the bucket faster. valve stem seals start to leak, intoducing oil to the combustion chamber, which will cause knock. motor mounts wear out. bearings get worn. carbon deposits cause pre-ignition. Turbos don't do anything to an engine. Think about it, a turbo just bolts to a manifold and creates more flow than the engine can process (called boost). now, boost causes heat and pressure, which can cause problems if not dealt with correctly. A turbocharger can't mess up your piston rings, but running too much boost with too much timing with not enough octane causes broken ring lands, holed pistons, bent rods, and the like. "fried piston rings" is a fast and ferious term, you cant fry a piston ring, the piston itself will melt before the ring. But ringlands of the piston can break.

My personal opinion, freshen up your engine first, match some bearings to your crank, and price out some pistons and rods, no need for overboard, just safe. Freshen up your head also, new guides and seals. and perfect time to throw in cams of you want. You'll want a new GOOD headgasket and new bolts (or studs if your going for bulletproof).

[Evorare]

Well said Highboosted.

And not thats its totally related to the subject, but have you given thought to your clutch, and transmission?

[e30-ix kid]

And not thats its totally related to the subject, but have you given thought to your clutch, and transmission?

if your gonna be running 50 hp or more than stock, a strurdier clutch would be a smart investment, especially if your still rollin with your original clutch. the transmission will probably hold, but its likely that the clutch will become a problem area.

[card counter]

Stock motors are fine for boost just lower the compression via head gasket

[hammerfang]

interesting

[BIMMERRACER]

Yea I will get a new clutch and new flywheel if i get the Turbo. The tranny i will keep it till it messes up and just get a new one when time is needed. But i am afraid that my motor will blow on me sense there are so many miles and getting a engine rebuid coasts 4G's. So i might just hold off on the turbo and get the egine rebuit and then add the turbos with flywheel and clutch afterwards.

[bmw318is1994]

Originally Posted by BIMMERRACER

Yea I will get a new clutch and new flywheel if i get the Turbo. The tranny i will keep it till it messes up and just get a new one when time is needed. But i am afraid that my motor will blow on me sense there are so many miles and getting a engine rebuid coasts 4G's. So i might just hold off on the turbo and get the egine rebuit and then add the turbos with flywheel and clutch afterwards.

what all comes in this "engine rebuild" that costs 4,000 dollars? Are you going to rebuild it yourself or going to have a shop do it? its much cheaper to do it on your own if you dont know how to do it research man save you money in the long run.

[BIMMERRACER]

I was looking at the AA stage 2 turbo and it's rather pricy! For 10,900 you get
Performance Specifications
Power: 359 WHP @ 6000 rpm (459 BHP)
Torque: 367.7 ft/lbs @ 4500 rpm
0 - 60 mph: under 5 sec
0 - 100 mph: 10.17 seconds
Top speed: 170+ mph
1/4 mile: 12.2 approximated
Boost Level: 14 psi
Can anyone tell me what the turbo efficiency is? Can i get the turbo and all of the components in the kit to withstand 600+ hp with somewhere around 25 to 30 psi?

[itsabimmerthing]

Doesnt even run 14psi bro... The turbo is very efficent, with low boost, and yes the included 20g turbo can easily do 25psi PUMPGAS tunes... I know this because this is the most common DSM turbo of choice!

[MidwestM3]

Does no one else see that there needs to be a TON more research done before Bimmerracer starts to modify his engine? It seems some people just buys some turbo kit without the slightest understanding of what the dynamics of the system are. For the efficiency of a Mitsu 20g just search. The turbo has been around forever and the maps are readily available. Anyways the efficiency depends on flow and pressure ratio. Your specific efficiency will depend on what how you tune your car. And the question concerning whether a turbo system can hold 600+ hp, that is just a blatent cry for someone to tell them to read the manual and do research. Really other than the maximum flow of the turbo the limiting factors for a 600+ hp car have very little to do with the FI system. You will need a better fuel system, stronger bottom end, probably better trans, and a tuning system that doesn't consist of a black box or some ecu trickery via a SAFC. And that is just to list a few things. I would say spend a month or more reading a good FI book and reading various BMW forums and then ask informed meaningful questions.

[BIMMERRACER]

Soory for asking stupid questions but this is just the first time i am putting a turbo on a car! Yes, i am reading about turbos and all, but i am a noob at bmw's and just learning about them! Yes, i know i have to do alot of work on my engine, fuel, and trany. I got all those listed on my to do list. Also what do you mean it dosn't even run 14 psi? I got those specs from the AA site! ALso from the info i just read the Mitsubishi TD05 16g turbo makes 400 hp at no boost! So i convinced that the 20g that comes with AA package can handel alot more and can handel high boots! Although why does the turbo only cost $500 with $150 rebate on some sites? I can then D.I.Y it myself for maybe half the price and get the same shit as AA has!

[MidwestM3]

With any amount of research some of the questions that you asked could be answered with basic logic. How could any engine make more power with a turbo than it did when it was naturally aspirated if the turbo was producing no pressure? The only way a turbo adds power is by compressing air (adding boost), if there was no compressed air the turbo is doing nothing. Also, 20g's are old technology and that is why they are cheap. They are not a bad turbo, but they are just old and aerodynamics of their wheels are out of date. A standard TD05 20g will support about 45 lbs/min of air flow or probably just about 400 wheel horsepower if tuned and supported perfectly. Look at some of the guys on here, they had knowledge of FI systems before undertaking a DIY project and it is still a long project for them...

[Camaro_guy]

Originally Posted by Highboosted

A "seasoned" engine is good to start with, an "old" engine is not. Seasoned means used and rebuilt with new parts, "old" means it just has high miles. Things wear out, and putting more stress on an old engine just makes it kick the bucket faster. valve stem seals start to leak, intoducing oil to the combustion chamber, which will cause knock. motor mounts wear out. bearings get worn. carbon deposits cause pre-ignition. Turbos don't do anything to an engine. Think about it, a turbo just bolts to a manifold and creates more flow than the engine can process (called boost). now, boost causes heat and pressure, which can cause problems if not dealt with correctly. A turbocharger can't mess up your piston rings, but running too much boost with too much timing with not enough octane causes broken ring lands, holed pistons, bent rods, and the like. "fried piston rings" is a fast and ferious term, you cant fry a piston ring, the piston itself will melt before the ring. But ringlands of the piston can break.

My personal opinion, freshen up your engine first, match some bearings to your crank, and price out some pistons and rods, no need for overboard, just safe. Freshen up your head also, new guides and seals. and perfect time to throw in cams of you want. You'll want a new GOOD headgasket and new bolts (or studs if your going for bulletproof).

pistons are good because those high miles causes more "blow by" in the cylinder.

[Highboosted]

Originally Posted by Camaro_guy

pistons are good because those high miles causes more "blow by" in the cylinder.

That made absolutely no sense....lets break it down:

there is no such thing as blow by in the cylinders....the blow by is in the crank case....caused by cylinder pressure getting past the rings.

High miles do not cause blow by, pressure and a nonfuntioning seal causes blow by.

Pistons have nothing to do with blow by, pistons do not seal the combuston chamber, the next component does...

Rings cause blow by. Not just any ring, but the lower compression ring causes blow by, not the upper compression ring, not the oil control ring....

And to top it off, blow by causes contaminated oil, which causes things like failed turbo bearings, spun rod bearings, and wiped cam lobes.

So where in that did you decide that more blow by gasses determine weather a piston is appropreate for high pressure and heat applications?