How reliable are superchargers/Turbos

Rruusst11 · #1 (**permalink**) 07-20-2005, 11:42 PM

always heard of superchargers melting the engine and such........but from guys who have installed turbos or superchargers how reliable to these products get??? will i be expecting my engine to blow with these installed?? just some feedback would be nice thanks

MrBlonde · #2 (**permalink**) 07-21-2005, 04:38 AM

All superchargers and turbochargers will destroy your engine before too long. Most only last 20-25 seconds.

This is why everyone who has ever turbocharged or supercharged their BMW is now walking the streets.

DakarDave · #3 (**permalink**) 07-21-2005, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBlonde

All superchargers and turbochargers will destroy your engine before too long. Most only last 20-25 seconds.

This is why everyone who has ever turbocharged or supercharged their BMW is now walking the streets.

My supercharged RMS supercharged Z3 lasted just under 5 hours during an in-person dyno tuning session, before it blew up. I guess that means I last longer than most!

lol!

-Dave

Rruusst11 · #4 (**permalink**) 07-21-2005, 09:47 PM

damn... there really that bad?? i thought it would last at least like 30K miles....... why do people do it then if itll def. blow shit up??

x510x · #5 (**permalink**) 07-21-2005, 10:09 PM

because it's the fastest 25 seconds of your life

P4g4nite · #6 (**permalink**) 07-22-2005, 02:17 AM

ROFLHARRIS!!!

deep throat · #7 (**permalink**) 07-24-2005, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBlonde

All superchargers and turbochargers will destroy your engine before too long. Most only last 20-25 seconds.

This is why everyone who has ever turbocharged or supercharged their BMW is now walking the streets.

What?????

Are you telling us that ALL these ppl out there with F/Ied BMWs are regretting it?? Also meaning that they don't ever use their power toys and just keep it there for aestethics?? What is it a fact? How come companies like AA are thriving soooooooo soooooooooooooo much then?

I'm sorry if it seems i'm attacking you bro, only not. I had F/I on my to do list and I want answers before i jump into it.

M3.SA · #8 (**permalink**) 07-25-2005, 03:04 AM

Dont know of superchargers but turbo's another story..

Where do I start...
Reliability - Turbo charger, seals are going to need to be done in range 80000km-150000km's.

Engine - Look the engine is not meant for turbo so bearing an that are going to take a strain...depends on you driving style, will depend how long it will last.

Turbo's make a lot of power and if done right the first time dont see any problems...
Remember thou it ALSO MAKE IT EASY FOR YOU MOTOR TO BREAK, one some miss calculation and no gauges to monitor what happening is going to cost you your motor....

Biggest problem with guys blowing there motor's, is owners trying to boost the crap out of there engine's, thus causing the engine to meld piston's, run lean breaking manifolds etc...

fitler · #9 (**permalink**) 07-25-2005, 09:34 PM

this is a picture of my engine before it blew to bits. in fact the whole car just up and exploded, now i ride my bike. it is a huffy so you know its pretty fast too

deep throat · #10 (**permalink**) 07-26-2005, 10:14 AM

Damn...Was it your abuse? Or it's just inevitable with forced induction??

P4g4nite · #11 (**permalink**) 07-26-2005, 09:41 PM

Nothing lasts forever, and even less so when you stress it.

Forced induction stresses engines, drivelines, brakes, fuel bills, tyres....

You can do it, but be prepared to pay, same with anything.

RSEnigma · #12 (**permalink**) 07-27-2005, 07:05 AM

i'm assuming this discussion is based on the concept of forced induction on stock motors. with that in mind i believe that from what i've read and heard from ppl in person bmw's in general because of their construction tend to be a little more finickey than most when it comes to turbos or s/c's. i'm sure part of this is their factory tune, the ecu's run the car to the very edge of safe with such a high degree of control that once you start throwing things like above atmospheric pressure at it then there's no room for error mechanically or electronically/management.

now i don't know a ton about bmw's, infact i just started getting into them when i drove carlos' E36 M3 for like a month up in ontario. i drive a subaru, i'm doing my wnd engine swap, 3rd engine the car will hav seen in 2 years. the first engine was a 10.1:1 cr 2.5L 4 cylinder. i could hav boosted it, but i opted not to. i sold it and got a hybrid motor built from a legacy turbo closed deck forged internals short block with 2002 RS heads and intake manifold. ran a garrett T3/T04L with standalone. it worked great, until an electrical fire that carlos has probably posted about somewhere on here most likely labeled as the worst road trip ever. and it was. now i'm installing a 2003 wrx EJ205 motor and ecu with bolt ons.

ANYWAYS, to get back on topic, i'm only telling all this because it shows that subarus hav many cars in their history with turbos as their platforms, engine built around them. i don't know bmw's history that well but i can't really think of a bmw that was boosted oem, and if there is they couldn't have made very many and i don't think there are any in production right now. i just think that because the motors and oem management isn't made for this at all thru the entire bmw line, its going to take a lot more work to make one reliable without doing internal work.

i mean here in my town we did a gsr engine and transaxle swap into a 91 eg civic hatch. we built a manifold, ran an internally gated T3 super 60 and burned a custom chip for the stock ecu. we ran it on 10psi, launch control, 11:1 compression ratio, twisting to 9billion rpms, and i can attest to the fact that the drive beat the ever living shit out of it every day. the thing still runs great and its been years and a couple road trips iirc. so its all in the tune, if you can tune it safe enough you can make it work without tho whole mount saint hellens effect i've been hearing about.

so i'd say save your money and rebuild your motor to handle the extra stress induced by forced induction, and then boost it. and get tuned please for the love of god. i see too many ppl build their project, road tune just to get running, and then never hit the dyno. terrible.

deep throat · #13 (**permalink**) 07-27-2005, 08:29 AM

^^Ofcourse^^
It's illogical to T/C or S/C any NA engine without rebuilding it to handle the extra stresses that weren't in the engineers' minds when they built the engine. They didn't build it with a safety margin for FI IMHO.

So when the reliability question is laid down the table, whoever asks it must say "provided the engine has been prepared to handle the charging AND will be tuned". Now, after these are granted we can attack FI reliability. But never rise an eye-brow when a BMW engine blows to pieces and say it was the turbo or the S/C!!!! Have you made sure your engine has gone through the "fortification" process prior to charging? Have you dyno-tuned all the parameters on the dyno before you hit the road??

So, granted these preliminaries are satisfied and the correct boost is chosen, how reliable and engine-friendly is Forced Induction?

RSEnigma · #14 (**permalink**) 07-27-2005, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deep throat

^^Ofcourse^^
It's illogical to T/C or S/C any NA engine without rebuilding it to handle the extra stresses that weren't in the engineers' minds when they built the engine. They didn't build it with a safety margin for FI IMHO.

So when the reliability question is laid down the table, whoever asks it must say "provided the engine has been prepared to handle the charging AND will be tuned". Now, after these are granted we can attack FI reliability. But never rise an eye-brow when a BMW engine blows to pieces and say it was the turbo or the S/C!!!! Have you made sure your engine has gone through the "fortification" process prior to charging? Have you dyno-tuned all the parameters on the dyno before you hit the road??

So, granted these preliminaries are satisfied and the correct boost is chosen, how reliable and engine-friendly is Forced Induction?

not entirely illogical. like i previously mentioned we did a stock gsr 11:1 cr motor with T3 super 60 at 10psi. we just tuned it so that it was safe. when you get into aftermarket forced induction tuning you find that you pretty much tune any setup to be safe. some may be harder than others, some may give small to no yield after tuned to safe perameters due to their original construction but never the less you can still force feed an NA motor without doing internal work and be safe. its not impossible, its not even that hard in a lot of cases. i've only done a couple hig performance turbo apps on motors built for the boost, every other singles engine i've installed, built, and or tuned a turbo kit for has been stock NA internals. you just have to do lots of homework and go further into the workings than most ppl are willing to. some cases i even went as far as to find out which years produced better motors due to different metallurgy from different sources of mineral from year to year with certain vehicles or manufacturers. there's a lot of research involved, and yes (i know someone's going to say it), you might as well just rebuild a motor to the spec that you require for the forced induction application you intend to use and your driving style. sometimes, actually most of the time, its better just to suck it up and spend the money. most of the time tho me personally i like to just make it work the way most tuners would cringe at.

deep throat · #15 (**permalink**) 07-27-2005, 08:48 AM

Well....nicely put

But I was mainly speaking of a BMW engine. I read somewhere that you can force feed the engine (BMW engine that is) with "stock" internals if the boost is not beyond 8 or 10psi. Beyond that it's inevitable to rebuild (if I could only find that article).
It's easier to force feed a Japanese engine cuz, as u said, they build engines with foreced induction on their minds.