2002 engine retro fit

[cartooner_1337]

I was wondering if any one could tell me how the grandfather clause works for cars in the US. I know it goes something like this.... "if the car was made before 1974 (1973 and older) then you dont need to get it smogged" now the problem that I'm haveing is do they tell the year of your car with the chassi year or is it dependent on something else? I only ask because I was planing on getting a 1970-1973 2002 but I want the turbo moter which came in the 1976 and newer 2002 Tii. If I did the engine swap would I still fall under the grandfather clause and still be able to do anything I want with the moter and car that I want or would I have to go and get the car smogged and keep the moter closer to stock then I would like. if any one could help me with my delema it would be great.

[Villanuevas_BMW]

Actually,last year my 74 became expempt so it is 74 and older now. And no, once you are smog exempt, you can put any motor in no matter how new it is. When i got my registration and it said smog exempt, the work started. But take it from me, there is no use building the hell out of an M10, go with the S14, it will come out cheaper and stronger. The block of the S14 has a higher deck, thicker walls reinforced with ribs. The M10 block and S14 have similarities like tranny bolt pattern and if you bore out an M10 block, an S14 head gasket will work, thats what I did. Also an S14 head will not work on an M10 block(ignition and cam turning is different) Even though you did get it to work, you would tell youreself that a swap would have been easier and cheaper. Good luck! 02's forever

[cartooner_1337]

I was wondering what the different models of the 2002 were and what the difference was between all of them

[Villanuevas_BMW]

the 02's were here from 1967 to 1976
1502-1500
1602-1600
2002-2.0
2002ti- twin side carburated,did not make it to the US
2002tii- mechanical fuel injection
2002 turbo- did not make it to the US either, 1700 made
There was also a 2002 touring which I dont think made it here either.

[OldSkoolBmw]

BTW.. the turbo engine you talk of retro fitting was a POS cobbled together at the factory.. Honestly Mechanical Fuel Injection and boost don't mix!.. Most of the parts for that engine are NLA.. I have a turbo manifold for a m10 and it's forsale... that's like all you need from it... factory turbos came with 6.9:1 compression and 10lbs of boost on a huge KKK turbo.. 170HP max.. if you were on it for like 30 mins... like going down the autobahn... when you would get off of the gas.. the oil pressure would drop like a rock... and it would go down hill really quick.. bad idea..

[cartooner_1337]

in that case it would be better to try to retro fit the engine from an e30 m3 then try to upgrade the engine thats in it already.

[OldSkoolBmw]

Why not fit a e30 m20 into it. my friend in orlando has it... much cheaper than a s14 and lots more torque... plenty of HP mods.. another friend of mine is putting on a turbo kit on a m20 all stuffed into a 2002... it will be sick..

[Villanuevas_BMW]

Why a lot of 2002 owners do not want a baby six and want an S14 engine is because it is lighter. As it is, many 2002 owners say that their car is front heavy. I talk to the people at IR a lot and say that a 2002 with the battery at the back, a fiberglass hood, and fiberglass front fenders, make a big difference in how the car handles. Even though my battery is now in the back and my fenders are fiberglass, I dont go autocrossing the way those guys do, so I cant tell you first hand if the difference is big or not. An m20 is heavy enough, a turbo kit will add more, even though it is just a little bit. How high the extra weight is also makes a big difference.

But if you are not into getting the car to handle right and more into getting the car to fly, just go with the M20

[OldSkoolBmw]

M20 weighs 45lbs more than a m10.. not sure what an s14 weighs but I'm sure it's more than an m10.. we're not down to counting callories just yet... you could toss your battery in the trunk and ditch the hood lifting bar and get it back.. 02's are almost 50-50 wet weight ballance from the factory.. tossing 45extra lbs up front on a 2000 pound car isn't gonna kill it.... everyone I know who's done the m20 hasn't noticed any real degredation in the handling. you can't compare lap times as the m20 is just so much faster.... most have agreed that the s14 swap is over rated in bang for the buck.. s14's have no low end... they rev like a honda... anything under 4k is lame duck teritory.. granted it does look nice and those who have done it like it but I've driven a couple and wasn't to impressed with the feel of the s14 in an 02 or a s14 in a e30m3 (ugh heavy) s14 mods are also 2-3x as expensive as m20 mods.. with a m20 costing 1/2 to a third of the cost of the s14.. budget wise it's a no brainer.. neither one is bolt in so the install is equally as difficult... I was state champion with my 02 in autox.. honestly the fiberglass flares and lightweight hood made little difference for me.. it was all tires, suspension and rear gearing in autox... if their cars are nose heavy they should try running with the sway bars disconnected and stiffer springs... try it

[Jonte]

There is no use in building a M10?
Forged crank and rods stock.. There are plenty of people here in Sweden running 350-450hp with the only internals beeing touched is the pistons(put in forged), a hotter cam and a cutting headgasket(or stock headgasket but O-ringed block). Just slap a Turbo on it and crank that boost to ~30+psi
And the old M10 blocks are tougher than the S14 blocks due to the S14`s larger bore, ask anyone that`s building a 700-800+hp BMW i-4. Aaaand yes you can put a S14 head on a M10, but it takes work to fit them together.
I wouldnt even dream of using a S14 if bang/buck was a factor.

[Villanuevas_BMW]

Originally posted by Jonte
There is no use in building a M10?
Forged crank and rods stock.. There are plenty of people here in Sweden running 350-450hp with the only internals beeing touched is the pistons(put in forged), a hotter cam and a cutting headgasket(or stock headgasket but O-ringed block). Just slap a Turbo on it and crank that boost to ~30+psi
And the old M10 blocks are tougher than the S14 blocks due to the S14`s larger bore, ask anyone that`s building a 700-800+hp BMW i-4. Aaaand yes you can put a S14 head on a M10, but it takes work to fit them together.
I wouldnt even dream of using a S14 if bang/buck was a factor.

I know people have gotten the S14 head to work but I never really understood why. Why not just use the S14 block? Isnt it stronger than the M10 with more capabilities? I know that the S14 is bored out more, but does it really make it weaker? Afterall, the walls are thicker with reinforcement ribs along with the higher deck height. Also, why mess with with fabrication to make the head work? I doubt its a money factor when a goal is to hit 800hp. The only reason that I can think of is that the M10 has a shorter stroke therefore making a more relaible engine. Is that why?

[Jonte]

The S14´s block is based on the M10, they ARE weaker because of the larger bore the walls are thinner and the reinforcements dont make up for it.
There`s nothing special about the S14 block, it`s got the same bearings as the M10`s and you can actually put a M10 crank into a S14 and vice versa if you want to for some silly reason.
You mess with the fabrication to put the S14 head on the M10 blocks to make shitloads of power, the S14 blocks will crack when you`re closing in on 4 digits. The 8V heads on the M10`s start making power hard if you want over 600-700hp so they put the 16V S14 head on since they can be made to flow gobs more. For moderate outputs it`s just silly to put a S14 head on a M10 block since a S14 block wont break at low power and if you´ve got a M10 it would be easier to just buy a S14 than making a head-swap.
Worth noticing is that the M10`s in newer models like the E30 318 and E28 518 are supposedly a tad less sturdy than the older ones (02`s and E21 320`s etc etc).
For turbo peformance the M10 is the cheaper way to go if you can live without 600+hp though(and I wouldnt want to risk a S14 at much higher outputs than that either since they dont really grow on trees), the only time i`d swap a M10 for a S14 would be if I wanted some serious naturally aspirated peformance or a really good looking engine-bay. I`d puke my guts out if I sent a valve through a piston on a S14 and had to think about how it looks under the valve-cover, if it was a M10 head i`d just toss it on the heap and
But the bottom line is still that the M10 is a stronger bottom end for making super-silly amounts of power.

[M3turbog16]

Hey guys, I didnt get a chance to read the whole thread here but just letting you guys know I turbocharged my M10. T3 turbo ony running 12psi stock int. FMIC, HSK BOV. and it runs SO GOOD! had to do alot of mods to get it there but my dad can do just about everything and anything. Just letting you guys know

[rdh2002]

Originally posted by cartooner_1337
I want the turbo moter which came in the 1976 and newer 2002 Tii.

The turbo was a 1974 model, and the 2002tii was from 71-74. So, if you want those engines, you don't even have to swap for smog exempt.

As for the other engine swaps, I've seen all of those mentioned, and the end result is usually similiar. Everyone has their own preference, and if you build what you want you're probably going to be the happiest that way. I say you should set a goal for the amount of power and torque you want, and then figure out which road is the easiest to get there.