E46 M3 vs. E36 M3

[Lovinbms]

The m3 -e-46 offers a nice compromise. It leaves you more connected to the road than other cars in its class (C32 AMG, s4, Viggen, and ect.) and its a step up in the interior compared to the e-36.

Top engine award 2001 E-46 m3
Top 10 car award 2001 and 2002 E-46 m3

What I'm saying is that the E-46 m3 is far from a dud. It has its faults but try offering another car in its class (sports sedan) which has all the standards you listed. If you can't how can you call it a dud?

I do agree I didn't feel as connected to the road when I drove it compared to the e-36 but its a significant step up from the e-36 in terms of accelleration and refinement.

P.S. Tell BMW that your Dad doesn't think much of the E-46 m3. I'm sure they will take that into advisement.

[OldSkoolBimmers]

What kind of question is this...everyone knows for a fact the the E46 M3 is superior to the E36 M3 in every way...duh, the E46 M3 is newer...the only time you can compare them is whether you like the E46 or the E36 body style...and about the "E36 M3 is raw and the E46 M3 is luxury" talk...theyre both luxurious and raw (if you turn off DSC in the E46 M3)

and yes, i am aware of modability of E36 M3's and also im aware of the Euro Spec E36 M3(awesome engine)...still, the E36 M3 euro spec is slower (just a little)

[LightWeightM3]

As an owner of a '95 lightweight and a '02 with SMG II, I would say each has its advantages. To me, the LTW handles better and is more responsive and seems to have more of a snappy feels when you accelerate hard. The '02 has more of a linear acceleration so it feels as though it doesn't throw you back in the seat as hard. I would say the LTW is more of a racer's car while the '02 is a more refined automobile, more in the spirit of a CLK32 AMG (but better, of course. )

[pete]

i call it a dud, because when i buy a car like an m3, i look for something that is powerful, luxorious, and basically care-free to drive. when i want speed thrill i'll make a trip to the track with one of my real toys, but things like lateral G numbers, .1 of a second accelleration, or 3 feet of stopping, i just don't care about that much in a street car. Its a matter of personal choice, of course, but I think bmw should have either gone less luxorious, made the car faster, and LIGHTER (its a tub and a half), or they should have put a bigger motor in it, so you don't have to rev the crap out of it...


i would take an e46 m3 over a c32 any day if it had a different motor, i'm just not into gear slammin, 8000 rpm street driving anymore (that much), so super high rpm power like that doesn't really appeal to me.

this is the same EXACT reason we sold our 360 modena (not being able to insure it reasonably helped)... To make the car move, even for a relatively simple (yet somewhat quick) pass, you had to drop 1, sometimes even 2 gears first, just to get in the powerband. once your there, it hauls ass. ferrari solves this by putting a bigger v12 in there more expensive cars, and for good reason.

the nice thing about the amg's is they pull HARD even from low rpms, so even with an auto (btw, go drive an amg speedshift... its the first auto i've NOT dispised with a passion...) it is usually in the right gear. This means when that pesky Civic in the next lane tries to race, you don't even have to bother downshifting, its an entirely relaxing driving experiance...

i guess the thing i'm saying is my e36 makes me happy in a sporty way... its STIFF (TC Kline Proline setup), a bit loud, rough around the edges, and it FEELS resonably light (even tho its a fat tub anyways)... The e46 didn't really impress me that way, it felt soft and heavy... at teh same time, it didn't impresse me with the low end torque and brainless driving of the AMG either... thats what i mean.


if i had to choose, i'd probably grab a c32, throw on a smaller supercharger pulley kit, and some H&R sports to stiffen it up a bit...

one other issue, now that i talk mods, we had with teh e46 is there is basically no hope of modifing that engine with any real gain... the c32's supercharged setup can easily be modded, but the rapped out 3.2 in the m3 is basically maxed, short of major work... (supercharged + JE 8.0:1's + rods + uhhh... Motec?? LOL!) and we tend to avoid "major" work on street cars because you never ever get your money back.


(oh, as for telling bmwcca... lol, our local dealer eats balls, big hairy ones... Remember how i said we had 2 of them? thats because we were #1 on the list here in utah, and #1 on the list in florida, where we have a 2nd house. Our local utah dealer tried to charge us 1500 dollars to do a "complementary" delivery (they tell bmw to send the car to utah instead of florida... you essentially pay them to unwrap the car)... needless to say, my dad was furious, cancelled an M5 that was on order, and told them not to expect any further business. So, needless to say, somehow i doubt that word would ever reach bmwcca. i mean, look at the atrocious new 7, and the thoasands of pissed off bimmer freaks... no, instead, we just shrug, and buy cars from other people until bmw gets a reality check and figures out they are building street cars here not club cars, or race cars)


lol, shit, even competition proved they should have put a small displacement, lower rpm v-8 in the car... basically, bmw wanted to keep the 3's all 6cyl, so they compromised with this rev happy thingy. shit, if i wanted high rpms, i'd go ride one of our bikes!

[Lovinbms]

Merriam-Webster's dictionary of a dud. a : one that is ineffectual; also : FAILURE <a box-office dud> b : MISFIT

I think the poor choice of words obscured the point you were trying to make. The m3 in its current form is not the prototypical sportscar you wish it to be, but it is far from a dud, which is made readily apparent by the numerous accolades and awards it has achieved.

The changes one would have to make to the c-32 AMG, to make it into your ideal "sports car" seems a bit overboard. When will it end? After you change the suspension, will you also change the transmission to manual? Change the seats and the interior to make it feel less isolated?

Which begs the question if the m3-e46 in its current form is a dud what is the c36-AMG? Are we to believe its flaws immediately dissappear with mods?

The m3 is an impressive Sports-sedan. The added weight probably makes it less than ideal to run on the track, but with a 332 HP N/A engine, it makes up for it on the street. Wink wink...it shouldn't have any problems with civics.

P.S. I wonder how many auto's are on the track? Maybe you will be the first with the c32 Amg.

[whitey]

Lets see , my brother had the e36m3 and i now have the e46. Honestly
i feel the e36 does a better joba at conering and the steering is slighly better.
The e46 m3 steering is way too light and when it corners it lifts. It needs sway bars and springs to make it better and less power steering. But throttle response is excellent and having a 8000 rpm redline helps with power at nearly any rpm. I still prefer the e46m3 after some minor adjustments. But i agree that out of the factory , the e36 is more a drivers car.

Don't flame me, just my $0.02

[Mr. Clean]

Listen to Pete. What he is saying is absolutely true. The E46 M3 lags in the lower end power. To call the E46 M3 a "sports car" I think is a false statement. Its simply to large and heavy.

BMW over the past decade has faded away from original reason of the motorsport division. This sucks. The E30 IMO is the only true M car along with the M1. They now drop race inspired engines into huge machines and slap a M badge on them.

I get the best of both worlds:


My car is fast and quick. It has more low end power then the US motors. I dont care what you hear, the euro motor pulls harder in every powerband. Its not as quick as I thought it would be. The massive 750 3.23 diff I believe is the reason for this. I'm getting a 3.64 to set me even with the E46. Then we will be able to see what a fat whale the E46 really is.

[emdrie]

how do you do smileys that r not in the list?? like this gay smiley ?
and is there a list of unlisted smileys ?

[Mr. Clean]

Originally posted by emdrie
how do you do smileys that r not in the list?? like this gay smiley ?
and is there a list of unlisted smileys ?

are you talking to me?

[emdrie]

no i was talking to the operator ( chris )

[pete]

hmmmm... yes, my c32 would be at the track... next to our tow vehicle, trailor, and my formula car.


you missed my point entirely. i'm not saying the C32 is a good sports car... AND i'm not saying it try's to be both... Mercedes clearly made up there mind to make the C32 a quick luxury car, and thats reflected in teh auto tranny, big torque, low rpm motor, and plush interior... Thats why i would BUY IT TO BE A LUXURY CAR and leave the auto! the only reason for the pulley is... well, who can argue with 30-40 extra hp for around 500 bucks? and the sport springs is just to get rid of that unsightly wheel gap...

BMW tried to compromise too much, thats what i'm trying to say... they tried to build a sedan that is both a sports car and a luxury car, but the two nearly contradict each other, and so this resulted in a certain identity crisis. Coming from a family that counts cars on both hands and some of the toes, I would much rather have a car that does each task well. the e46 m3 does not do this... it doesn't fill the role of small sized luxury car as well as the AMG, but it doesn't perform as a sports car as well as many true sports cars...

If i had to have one car for everyday driving, spirited driving, and track, well, i would probably give it a 2nd chance, maybe.

btw... street car + on track = LOL!

[Lovinbms]

What is clear is the c32 AMG was MB's answer to the m3.
I found your choice peculiar because MB made every attempt to make the c32 as competent as the m3. (i.e improved the suspension, increased the hp, it was priced more competitively with the m3).

I would surmise MB intent was not only to make a QUICK LUXURY CAR but to offer a car that was a sporty alternative to the m3. Many have stated the car comes up short in this area...leaving the driver isolated from the road, but shines in other areas.

Reading your posts I was waiting for a car that achieves all the objectives you stated. Does one exists?

The m3 for all intense and purposes is a Luxury sedan that tries to be sporty. They don't make excuses for it. Its what its known for (being above average and multiple areas not just one or two.)The split personalities of the car is what the car is known for, being luxurious yet sporty.

If you can provide a sports sedan that can achieve all the objectives I think that would further the discussion. Anything else is just idle banter.

[pete]

because! if its a "Sports Sedan" wtf did they put that piece of crap, untunable, tweaked out grenade motor in it! that should have gone into a low production, lightweight, true sports car not even built on a sedan chassis, like the M coupe, it has no place in a sedan whatsoever.

the magazines can say what they want about that motor, it has lots of neat technology, but that doesn't change the fact that the e46 simply should have had a BIGGER MOTOR!

why don't i compare it to ferrari / porsche / lambo... uhhh, are those sedans?



why would i mod the c32? well, any stock car needs sport springs, thats simply a matter of fact. they all come way to high. even our modena was going to get H&R sports until we decided to sell it. wheel gap = and the pulley... uhh, why not? 500 bucks for 40 more horsepower? shit, if i did have a c32, i wouldn't mind the oportunity to kill some e46 m3's.

[Lovinbms]

because! if its a "Sports Sedan" wtf did they put that piece of crap, untunable, tweaked out grenade motor in it! that should have gone into a low production, lightweight, true sports car not even built on a sedan chassis, like the M coupe, it has no place in a sedan whatsoever.

>>but the v6-s/c belongs in the c32 amg. The euro m3 should never have gotten the 321 hp i-6 and it should have only been installed in the lightweight version.
The m3 is a sports sedan. Sorry if this is news to you.


the magazines can say what they want about that motor, it has lots of neat technology, but that doesn't change the fact that the e46 simply should have had a BIGGER MOTOR!


>>>LOL....It doesn't need a bigger motor. 1/4 mile times, 0-60 times are fine.

why don't i compare it to ferrari / porsche / lambo... uhhh, are those sedans?

>>>whose trying to make the m3 into a sports car. I thought I lend you some help with ACTUAL SPORTS CARS and not the c32 amg you seem to be soo attached to.

why would i mod the c32? well, any stock car needs sport springs, thats simply a matter of fact. they all come way to high. even our modena was going to get H&R sports until we decided to sell it. wheel gap = and the pulley... uhh, why not? 500 bucks for 40 more horsepower? shit, if i did have a c32, i wouldn't mind the oportunity to kill some e46 m3's. [/b][/quote]

>>>springs which wouldn't improve the handling....just the looks? pulley so that your mom can get to the grocery shop quicker....alrighty then.

Still haven't offered a sports sedan that accomplishes all your objectives. Just going around in circles with a car that doesn't.

[Lovinbms]

Originally posted by whitey
Lets see , my brother had the e36m3 and i now have the e46. Honestly
i feel the e36 does a better joba at conering and the steering is slighly better.
The e46 m3 steering is way too light and when it corners it lifts. It needs sway bars and springs to make it better and less power steering. But throttle response is excellent and having a 8000 rpm redline helps with power at nearly any rpm. I still prefer the e46m3 after some minor adjustments. But i agree that out of the factory , the e36 is more a drivers car.

Don't flame me, just my $0.02

Nice m3.